Akela-1 scans

[tbzep]

(also posted on the OldRockets list and soon to go up on TRF)

I lost all the photos I accumulated of the Akela-1 kit due to a hard drive crash a few months ago. If any of you have any scans, or links to pics of the finished rocket, please help me out. Color pics would be awesome, but I'll take anything I can get. I'm just starting to dig through the Centuri Rocket Times scans on Ninfinger and have found a marginal quality scan in the 1975-1976 Winter CRT.

For those of you that don't know about the kit, it was a rocket produced by Centuri for the Boy Scouts of America, specifically the Cub Scouts, IIRC. You could buy it at just about any place that sold Boy Scouts materials, supplies, etc. It's physically a copy of the old Centuri Viking. Estes recreated it and also called it the Viking, but the parts are slightly different. The Estes version uses thinner Estes tubing, and the nosecone and the fiber fins have ever so slightly different angles, but you wouldn't notice the difference on an assembled rocket. With parts lying side by side, it's easy to see the difference, however.

[CPMcGraw]

I lost all the photos I accumulated of the Akela-1 kit due to a hard drive crash a few months ago...

You know that Scott has the decal scans on YORP, right?

How badly did that drive crash? Was it totally trashed, like a head crash? Or was it just some scrambled boot-up files?

Have you tried attaching the drive as a secondary external drive through a USB cable? Maybe you can still read some of those files onto your new drive...

[tbzep]

You know that Scott has the decal scans on YORP, right?

How badly did that drive crash? Was it totally trashed, like a head crash? Or was it just some scrambled boot-up files?

Have you tried attaching the drive as a secondary external drive through a USB cable? Maybe you can still read some of those files onto your new drive...

I still have the decals on DVD. The drive wouldn't spin up. It went into the trash not too long after it happened. I had a lot of stuff backed up on DVD, but not those particular pics for some reason. What I'd really like to have are the color ad photos.

[tbzep]

Since the original Akela-1 cone looks different from the Viking cone, I thought I'd try to build a second rocket using Centuri parts.

I have two nosecones that came from Akela-1 kits. Centuri tubes are thicker than the stuff we get today, so I figure buying tubes from BMS, Semroc, etc. would fit the nosecone a little loose. I knew I had some old Centuri tubing somewhere that I ordered from ACME (Grant Boyd) over a decade ago. I found the box tonight. Looks like I ordered it in 1994. There are several pieces of Series 7 tubes and one Series 8 tube along with a payload section and nosecone for the Series 8.

If Phred could measure the actual length of the original body tube in his colllection for me, I'll build a second Akela-1 using the original nosecone. Unfortunately, I can only find a couple of original fins, so I'll have to cut some balsa fins for it. The Viking fins are a hair different in shape, and I don't care too much for fiber fins anyway.

I'll use the Viking bash as my main flying model and the one with the Centuri parts will fly once or twice for photos and be put on display. I might even stick a 13mm motor mount in the Viking bashed version since I have a butt load of mini motors.

I'm still looking for the old color advertisements of the Akela-1. I used to have color versions of these B&W photos pulled from Ninfinger's site.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/Rockets/ad.jpg

[tbzep]

I just went through the 1974 set of Boys' Life magazine looking for color images of the Akela-1. I didn't find any color, but I did find this small article on the Akela in the January issue, and a diorama with an Estes Alpha III and a Centuri Bandito in the October issue.

Jan 1974 Boys' Life
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/Rockets/BoysLife1.jpg

Oct 1974 Boys' Life
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/Rockets/BoysLife3.jpg

[Green Dragon]

stumbled onto this thread and got me curious as to differences in the Akela 1 versus the Viking.

I actually have an original Akela kit at my parents ( with most of my rocketry items, due to space constraints), so don't have right here to check against the Viking fins I have .

few questions this brings up -

are the original Vecotr V fins the viking fins or Akela, or different ? ( I also have an original builtup Vector V , but, again, not here at present ).

if the fins are indeed different, I think I have some fins left over form an original Centuri cub scout 12 pak , along with at least a partial sheet of 'Akela' decals.

if I get over there and grab those, will try to get some pics, although the Akela is in non-standard paint ( not sure what that should look like, so any pics might be of interest ).

also, last question is in regards to the cone - how was that different than the regular Centuri Viking cone ? (again, not having one to compare to, but DO have what I think is an original cone from '12 pak kits' and comparing to the other Centuri cone I have ( and the moldin oldies copy I also have ), they all look the same.

~ AL

[tbzep]

Al,

The Estes Viking and the original Akela-1 are slightly different. I have both (edit: I have parts from the Akela, but not a packaged kit). The nosecones and body tubes are also different. The body tube of the Akela was thicker and stronger and was slightly longer. The nosecone was heavier and had a more rounded tip. The fins have only slightly different dimensions, but they are different enough for someone with a decent eye to notice if they are sitting near each other without having to measure. I don't care what anybody else has said in the past about them being identical...they didn't have the parts in their hands.

The Estes Viking came out in the 80's when they started marketing Centuri kits under their own name. I don't know if the Centuri Viking had already changed from the original heavy parts that the Akela used, but it definately was born of that rocket.

I've never seen a Vector V in person, but I'd bet it had the same body tube (not counting the larger fin area tube), nosecone and fins as the Akela.

[Green Dragon]

Al,

The Estes Viking and the original Akela-1 are slightly different. I have both (edit: I have parts from the Akela, but not a packaged kit). The nosecones and body tubes are also different. The body tube of the Akela was thicker and stronger and was slightly longer. The nosecone was heavier and had a more rounded tip. The fins have only slightly different dimensions, but they are different enough for someone with a decent eye to notice if they are sitting near each other without having to measure. I don't care what anybody else has said in the past about them being identical...they didn't have the parts in their hands.

The Estes Viking came out in the 80's when they started marketing Centuri kits under their own name. I don't know if the Centuri Viking had already changed from the original heavy parts that the Akela used, but it definately was born of that rocket.

I've never seen a Vector V in person, but I'd bet it had the same body tube (not counting the larger fin area tube), nosecone and fins as the Akela.

OK, I knew the Estes release was ' Estes-ized' ( ie: BT20,etc ), but the Centuri ones I;ve seen were, iirc, still the thicker tubing and all.
Will be sure to grab my Akela when over at my dad's this weekend, and will compare to the Viking and Vector V ( and yes, the Vector has the Centuri thick tubing,etc - and originally had the plastic 2 piece cone, at least mine did , cone was lost and now has a BMS replacement cone when I restored it last summer ).

will try to get some postable pics - now I'm wondering if I should repaint / restore the Akela if it has such a history / 'following', lol....

I do still have the whole sheet of decals ( enough for the 12 pak, all printed on one sheet ), if anyone needs just a single set, lmk with a mailing address. decals should be topcoated, just in case, but have been well-stored, to best of my knowledge.

~ AL

[tbzep]

Here's a pic to get you started. On the left is an original Akela-1 nosecone, on the right is the Estes Viking nosecone.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/Rockets/Pa260003.jpg

[blackshire]

OK, I knew the Estes release was ' Estes-ized' ( ie: BT20,etc ), but the Centuri ones I;ve seen were, iirc, still the thicker tubing and all.
Will be sure to grab my Akela when over at my dad's this weekend, and will compare to the Viking and Vector V ( and yes, the Vector has the Centuri thick tubing,etc - and originally had the plastic 2 piece cone, at least mine did , cone was lost and now has a BMS replacement cone when I restored it last summer ).

will try to get some postable pics - now I'm wondering if I should repaint / restore the Akela if it has such a history / 'following', lol....

I do still have the whole sheet of decals ( enough for the 12 pak, all printed on one sheet ), if anyone needs just a single set, lmk with a mailing address. decals should be topcoated, just in case, but have been well-stored, to best of my knowledge.

~ AL

I know this is dredging up a long-dormant thread, but do you by any chance still have the Akela decals that you mentioned in the above-referenced posting? With the Semroc and Moldin' Oldies airframe parts now available, duplicates of the decals would allow high-fidelity or even exact replicas of the Akela rockets to be built. Other sets of duplicate Akela decals could even be down-scaled slightly to fit the Estes Viking.

[gpoehlein]

For what it's worth, Gordon (Sandman) offers the Akela I decals through Excelsior - second item on the Centuri Classic decal page:

http://excelsiorrocketry.com/

Greg

[blackshire]

For what it's worth, Gordon (Sandman) offers the Akela I decals through Excelsior - second item on the Centuri Classic decal page:

http://excelsiorrocketry.com/

Greg

Greg, I thank you very much for this tip! I'm glad to see that he picked up and is carrying on the Excelsior Rocketry line of decals.

[Ltvscout]

I know this is dredging up a long-dormant thread, but do you by any chance still have the Akela decals that you mentioned in the above-referenced posting? With the Semroc and Moldin' Oldies airframe parts now available, duplicates of the decals would allow high-fidelity or even exact replicas of the Akela rockets to be built. Other sets of duplicate Akela decals could even be down-scaled slightly to fit the Estes Viking.
I have them online on Ye Olde Rocket Plans. Go to the decals section, they're right at the top.

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/decals.htm

[blackshire]

I have them online on Ye Olde Rocket Plans. Go to the decals section, they're right at the top.

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/decals.htm

Scott, thank you for posting the link! I have an HP1210 printer/copier/scanner. Would it yield good quality print-outs? Also, do they print at 100% "straight" from the file? Lastly, what clear decal film sheets do you recommend for printing decals? I apologize for the very basic questions, but I've never done this before.

[Ltvscout]

Scott, thank you for posting the link! I have an HP1210 printer/copier/scanner. Would it yield good quality print-outs? Also, do they print at 100% "straight" from the file? Lastly, what clear decal film sheets do you recommend for printing decals? I apologize for the very basic questions, but I've never done this before.
Sorry, I don't have any other info I can give you about printing the file and/or making decals. I don't make my own so don't have experience with it. I'm sure someone else here should have an answer for you though.

[Intruder]

Scott, thank you for posting the link! I have an HP1210 printer/copier/scanner. Would it yield good quality print-outs? Also, do they print at 100% "straight" from the file? Lastly, what clear decal film sheets do you recommend for printing decals? I apologize for the very basic questions, but I've never done this before.

We have an HP 6940 and it makes pretty good decals, as do most HP inkjets. Since yours being multi-purpose, I don't know. As for printing 100% scale, it depends on the program you print with. That being said, 9 times out of 10 a file won't print at 100% without adjusting settings. Always do several B&W drafts on plain paper to test the size of the decals and to make sure that they actually fit on the page (having decals cut off will make you a VERY unhappy camper).

I would also suggest you download GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/) . It is a powerful image editing program that can handle anything you would ever want to do with decals, and best of all it's FREE! Simple editing like scaling and rearranging is pretty easy. Serious decal editing and creating has a fairly steep learning curve, but that would be the same with any program. The printer settings are also pretty easy to adjust. Just click ignore page margins and set the X and Y resolution to 300 , and it should print at 100% scale.

[tbzep]

Scott, thank you for posting the link! I have an HP1210 printer/copier/scanner. Would it yield good quality print-outs? Also, do they print at 100% "straight" from the file? Lastly, what clear decal film sheets do you recommend for printing decals? I apologize for the very basic questions, but I've never done this before.

That would depend on the resolution it was scanned at vs. the resolution you print. I don't remember what I scanned my Akela-1 decal, but I'd guess it was 300 dpi. If it is scanned at 300 dpi and you print at 300 dpi, it should be 100% or awfully close.

I like using decal paper for inkjets from MicroMark. I used Bel originally, but I started having some problems with it after a year or so and haven't bought any in several years now. I've had excellent results with the MicroMark paper.

[blackshire]

I thank you all for the information. This looks like a good winter project.

[blackshire]

(also posted on the OldRockets list and soon to go up on TRF)

I lost all the photos I accumulated of the Akela-1 kit due to a hard drive crash a few months ago. If any of you have any scans, or links to pics of the finished rocket, please help me out. Color pics would be awesome, but I'll take anything I can get. I'm just starting to dig through the Centuri Rocket Times scans on Ninfinger and have found a marginal quality scan in the 1975-1976 Winter CRT.

For those of you that don't know about the kit, it was a rocket produced by Centuri for the Boy Scouts of America, specifically the Cub Scouts, IIRC. You could buy it at just about any place that sold Boy Scouts materials, supplies, etc. It's physically a copy of the old Centuri Viking. Estes recreated it and also called it the Viking, but the parts are slightly different. The Estes version uses thinner Estes tubing, and the nosecone and the fiber fins have ever so slightly different angles, but you wouldn't notice the difference on an assembled rocket. With parts lying side by side, it's easy to see the difference, however.

The "Classics" section on the Semroc web site dates the Centuri Akela-1 (and the Centuri Viking) as having been available between 1980 and 1983. This seems a bit "late" to me, as I seem to recall having seen ads for the Akela-1 in the late 1970s.

[tbzep]

The "Classics" section on the Semroc web site dates the Centuri Akela-1 (and the Centuri Viking) as having been available between 1980 and 1983. This seems a bit "late" to me, as I seem to recall having seen ads for the Akela-1 in the late 1970s.

The Akela-1 was available in the 70's. Not sure when it first became available, but I know it was available when I was in Cub Scouts well before the 80's.

[sandman]

I have to redraw the Akela 1 decals.

Phred had them in his data base when I purchase Excelsior but alas, they will not open from any of the backups.

I can't get ahould of Phred he and his wife took my money and are on a tour of eastern Europe. :(

I started redrawing then this afternoon but it will take a while.

[blackshire]

I have to redraw the Akela 1 decals.

Phred had them in his data base when I purchase Excelsior but alas, they will not open from any of the backups.

I can't get ahould of Phred he and his wife took my money and are on a tour of eastern Europe. :(

I started redrawing then this afternoon but it will take a while.

I very much appreciate it! Also, there are two scans of the Akela-1 decal sheet (a "raw" scan and a "cleaned-up" version) here: www.oldrocketplans.com/decals.htm .

Could these eliminate one or more steps for producing new duplicates of the decal sheets?

(Making decals is still alchemy to me; I only know how to put them on models!) :-)


-- Jason

[sandman]

I very much appreciate it! Also, there are two scans of the Akela-1 decal sheet (a "raw" scan and a "cleaned-up" version) here: www.oldrocketplans.com/decals.htm .

Could these eliminate one or more steps for producing new duplicates of the decal sheets?

(Making decals is still alchemy to me; I only know how to put them on models!) :-)


-- Jason

I wish it were so but...alas I must redraw.

Everything is pretty simple to do except for the cub scout wolf...that's gonna be hard!

[blackshire]

I wish it were so but...alas I must redraw.

Everything is pretty simple to do except for the cub scout wolf...that's gonna be hard!

If I could find the Cub Scout wolf's head (in the diamond-shaped box) logo as clip art, could you "drag-and-drop" or otherwise import it into the Akela-1 file?

[sandman]

If I could find the Cub Scout wolf's head (in the diamond-shaped box) logo as clip art, could you "drag-and-drop" or otherwise import it into the Akela-1 file?

I found it on line and I'm doing just that.

I have the wolf's head completed and the "CUB" in Cub Scout finished.

I'm getting there but it's tedious.

[blackshire]

Sandman, I very much appreciate it! I'll make it worth your while (I'll order more Akela-1 decal sheets when I get my next Social Security Disability benefit payment in a few days).

I'm not going back into the kit-manufacturing business (I will let Nova Hobbies lie), but I'd like to put together a very small-batch pack of Retro-Repro Akela-1 kits (made with Semroc parts) for the store next door to my apartment building.

[blackshire]

Another thought regarding the Akela-1 decal sheet--since the Boy Scouts of America sell the 12-pack of the Estes Viking (the Akela-1's very similar descendant) on their Scouting supplies web site (see: www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?ctlg=05NDC&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CRAFTS&C3=ROCKETS&C4=&LV=3&item=179VRK ), why not also make a second, slightly reduced-size Akela-1 decal sheet that would fit on the Viking? (The original Akela-1 body band decals--made to wrap around the Centuri #7 body tube--would be a bit too long for the BT-20 size Viking.) The decal sheet could have 12 individually-numbered Akela-1 decal sets (to go with the 12 Viking kits in the 12-pack) instead of the 8 sets on the original Akela-1 decal sheet. Both decal sizes (the original for #7 tubing and the slightly-reduced size for BT-20 tubing) would be popular.

There are a lot of BARs who are into Scouting with their children who built the Akela-1 when they were Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts, and this would be a way that they could share a bit of their youth with their children. Also, the slightly reduced-size, individually-numbered Akela-1 decal sets would enable the Scouts to know which rocket is whose if two or more of the Viking rockets in a 12-pack happen to have identical paint schemes.

[sandman]

I'll seriously concider that.

[blackshire]

I'll seriously concider that.

Thank you! If you decide to do both (a 12-decal set sheet sized to fit the Estes Viking as well as the original 8-decal set sheet for the #7 size tubing Akela-1), I'll order multiple units of both.

[sandman]

OK, I have the Akela decals finished except for one thing. The scale.

The scans are probably not to scale when i copy them into Corel so does anybody know the length of the stripes?

And, blackshire, what length do you think they should be for the Viking?

Once I get the lengths scaling is the easy part.

[blackshire]

Assuming that the blue-and-yellow bands don't overlap but just meet end-to-end (which I don't know either way because I never had an Akela-1 kit), they are 2.3845" long (pi X 0.759", the Centuri #7 body tube diameter) on the original Akela-1. For a slightly reduced-size version of the decals made to fit the Estes Viking, the bands (assuming that they don't overlap) would be 2.3122" long (pi X 0.736", the Estes BT-20 diameter).

Also, the decal scan that is with the kit instructions (see: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/centuri/cen1654/cen1654.htm ) was submitted by John Brohm. The Akela-1 decal scans in the "Decals and Templates" section of the "Ye Olde Rocket Plans" web site (see: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/decals/akela.jpg and http://www.oldrocketplans.com/decals/akela-1.jpg ) were submitted by Stefan Jones and Jim Bennett. If they are on YORF, one or both of them may still have the decals to measure (and maybe know whether or not the bands overlap when applied to the rocket).

[blackshire]

A quick addendum: Looking at one of the bands (the yellow one with blue upper and lower borders and round blue "rivets," see: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/decals/akela-1.jpg ), I can see that it is butt-joined when applied to the rocket. The yellow middle portion extends very slightly beyond the blue borders on the right end of the band, and there is a corresponding missing "sliver" of yellow on the left end of the band.

That would make the blue borders of the band 2.3845" long (pi X 0.759", the Centuri #7 body tube diameter) for the original Akela-1. For a slightly reduced-size version of the decals made to fit the Estes Viking, the blue borders of the band would be 2.3122" long (pi X 0.736", the Estes BT-20 diameter). The Akela-1 instructions (see: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/centuri/cen1654/cen1654.htm ) show the bands being applied to both painted and un-painted portions of the rocket's body tube, so I don't know whether or not Centuri made the bands just a smidgen longer than 2.3845" to make allowance for the thickness of paint on the body tube.

[sandman]

I'll try to be accurate but I really don't think I can get the stripe to within 0.0001" of an inch. ;)

I think I could get away with making them both decals for the Akela and the Viking 2.4" long.

That's what scissor are for.

[blackshire]

The overlap from applying the original (ST-7 size) bands to the Estes Viking wouldn't be drastic. (I didn't know what capabilities your system had, so I figured I'd provide more data than you might need.) I also PM'ed John Brohm to see if he could measure his Akela-1 decal sheet.

[Ltvscout]

If they are on YORF, one or both of them may still have the decals to measure (and maybe know whether or not the bands overlap when applied to the rocket).
Stefan is available at StefanJ and John is available at John Brohm here on YORF.

[sandman]

I'm going to go ahead and print them to 2.4" for bothe the original Akela-1 and I'll print blackshire a set for the Viking.

These can be "test" decals.

[stefanj]

I'll happily SEND my original Akela decal to any producer who will be making them.

All I ask is a sheet of the final product.

[Ltvscout]

All I ask is a sheet of the final product.
That's what Fred always did.

[John Brohm]

The overlap from applying the original (ST-7 size) bands to the Estes Viking wouldn't be drastic. (I didn't know what capabilities your system had, so I figured I'd provide more data than you might need.) I also PM'ed John Brohm to see if he could measure his Akela-1 decal sheet.

Hi Guys;

I did receive Black Shire's message, and have this quick opportunity to make a measurement before I'm overtaken by more auspicious events today (apparently it's my 27th wedding anniversary today. I've been thinking about getting her a Medal of Valor...).

Anyway, to the question: Black Shire was asking for the dimensions of the yellow rivet band. It is precisely 2.5" long and 0.125" wide.

Looking forward to the final result, Gordon!

[John Brohm]

Hi Guys;

...

Anyway, to the question: Black Shire was asking for the dimensions of the yellow rivet band. It is precisely 2.5" long and 0.125" wide.

Looking forward to the final result, Gordon!

For the avoidance of doubt, I'll offer up a photo here.

[blackshire]

I want to thank all of you very much for your help and offers to help! Now John, go and attend to your special requirements on this day--at the very least, you want to maintain spousal approval to post on the board! :-)

[sandman]

For the avoidance of doubt, I'll offer up a photo here.

I would never doubt you! :D

[blackshire]

Another consideration for accurate Akela-1 clones (whether using Semroc/Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" parts or Estes Viking kits) is the nose cone color, which in the original Akela-1 kit was the unpainted red-pigmented plastic of the nose cone. (The Centuri Viking kit and the early production runs of Estes' version of the Viking kit also had red plastic nose cones.)

What shade/brand of spray paint best matches the red plastic color? For the Estes Viking BT-20 nose cones (now molded in white polystyrene), only enamel or acrylic paints could be used because lacquer paint would melt the plastic. For painting the Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" cast (white) polyurethane resin PNC-76 replica nose cones, lacquer should be safe to use, and it would of course also be safe to use on Semroc's balsa PNC-76 replica nose cones.

[tbzep]

Another consideration for accurate Akela-1 clones (whether using Semroc/Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" parts or Estes Viking kits) is the nose cone color, which in the original Akela-1 kit was the unpainted red-pigmented plastic of the nose cone. (The Centuri Viking kit and the early production runs of Estes' version of the Viking kit also had red plastic nose cones.)

What shade/brand of spray paint best matches the red plastic color? For the Estes Viking BT-20 nose cones (now molded in white polystyrene), only enamel or acrylic paints could be used because lacquer paint would melt the plastic. For painting the Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" cast (white) polyurethane resin PNC-76 replica nose cones, lacquer should be safe to use, and it would of course also be safe to use on Semroc's balsa PNC-76 replica nose cones.

I have a few original Akela-1 nosecones. If I can remember to do it, I'll compare some of my reds with the cones tonight. You should be able to use lacquer over a good primer.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/Rockets/Pa260003.jpg

[blackshire]

I have a few original Akela-1 nosecones. If I can remember to do it, I'll compare some of my reds with the cones tonight. You should be able to use lacquer over a good primer.

Thank you for comparing your paint colors/brands with your Akela-1 nose cones, and for posting the PNC-76/Estes Viking nose cone comparison photo!

I am hesitant to apply lacquer over enamel, but paint formulations may have been changed a bit since my father told me in the early 1970s to never spray lacquer paint over dried enamel because the lacquer would attack the enamel coat and even produce a crinkle finish if the enamel wasn't completely dry (he said that enamel applied over dried lacquer works fine, though). I'm not particularly for or against lacquer, but with my luck the perfect color match for the red plastic nose cone may well be a lacquer paint. :-)

[John Brohm]

...

I am hesitant to apply lacquer over enamel, but paint formulations may have been changed a bit since my father told me in the early 1970s to never spray lacquer paint over dried enamel because the lacquer would attack the enamel coat and even produce a crinkle finish if the enamel wasn't completely dry (he said that enamel applied over dried lacquer works fine, though). I'm not particularly for or against lacquer, but with my luck the perfect color match for the red plastic nose cone may well be a lacquer paint. :-)

Jason;

Unless paint formulations have in fact changed, one should never spray a lacquer over enamel. It almost always results in significant disappointment. Take the advice of your Dad.

He's also right that enamel over lacquer is just fine.

My experience with the resin cones from Moldin' Oldies is that they won't take a lacquer (specifically the old Krylon formulation). It wasn't that the resin would craze (like your concern with styrene plastic), but that the lacquer would pool (and yes. this was after the part was thoroughly washed and wiped down). Instead (after some sanding...), I found that a regular enamel, like Testors, would work fine. I found that I preferred the Testors Flat White as a primer for the Moldin' Oldies cones. Everything was fine after that.

[blackshire]

John, you just reminded me of something that had been gnawing at the back of my mind but that I couldn't quite bring forth as a conscious thought. Many years ago, a resin caster told me that dried lacquer paint has such poor adhesion to polyurethane resin that it is often possible to simply wipe the dried lacquer paint off a resin part!

When you sand the Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" resin nose cones prior to painting, what grit size sandpaper (or sanding film) do you use? Also, do acrylic paints adhere well to them? (Not having an airbrush, I'll stick with enamel spray paint cans, but other model rocketeers who have airbrushes might prefer to use acrylic paints if they'll adhere to the resin nose cones.)

Jason;

Unless paint formulations have in fact changed, one should never spray a lacquer over enamel. It almost always results in significant disappointment. Take the advice of your Dad.

He's also right that enamel over lacquer is just fine.

My experience with the resin cones from Moldin' Oldies is that they won't take a lacquer (specifically the old Krylon formulation). It wasn't that the resin would craze (like your concern with styrene plastic), but that the lacquer would pool (and yes. this was after the part was thoroughly washed and wiped down). Instead (after some sanding...), I found that a regular enamel, like Testors, would work fine. I found that I preferred the Testors Flat White as a primer for the Moldin' Oldies cones. Everything was fine after that.

[tbzep]

Sorry I didn't get this to you last night. I was out bush hogging until after 9:00 and never got around to sitting down in front of the computer. Here's my test strip. All these reds are over a white base coat. In real life they look more different than they show up on the image, probably due to me having to use the flash indoors. The closest on my strip is Krylon Banner Red (old formula). It isn't exact, but it's pretty close. The nosecone was never all that shiny from what I remember, but it's is over 30 years old, both it and my memory have dulled over the years.

Click for a bigger pic.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/th_colors.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/colors.jpg)

[blackshire]

Thank you very much! I fully understand--having once lived not too far from your location (in the Blue Ridge Mountains of rural northern Georgia), we had to regularly run the Gravely agricultural-size field mower around the property to keep the Poplar saplings in check.

If Krylon's new replacement formula for their Banner Red 2108 is close to the original, I'll use it. The red Centuri plastic nose cones were never very shiny; they were the equivalent of a semi-gloss red paint.

Sorry I didn't get this to you last night. I was out bush hogging until after 9:00 and never got around to sitting down in front of the computer. Here's my test strip. All these reds are over a white base coat. In real life they look more different than they show up on the image, probably due to me having to use the flash indoors. The closest on my strip is Krylon Banner Red (old formula). It isn't exact, but it's pretty close. The nosecone was never all that shiny from what I remember, but it's is over 30 years old, both it and my memory have dulled over the years.

Click for a bigger pic.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/th_colors.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/tbzep/colors.jpg)

[tbzep]

Thank you very much! I fully understand--having once lived not too far from your location (in the Blue Ridge Mountains of rural northern Georgia), we had to regularly run the Gravely agricultural-size field mower around the property to keep the Poplar saplings in check.

If Krylon's new replacement formula for their Banner Red 2108 is close to the original, I'll use it. The red Centuri plastic nose cones were never very shiny; they were the equivalent of a semi-gloss red paint.

You're welcome. Remember to put it over a white base coat. Banner red is much darker over primer.

[John Brohm]

...

When you sand the Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" resin nose cones prior to painting, what grit size sandpaper (or sanding film) do you use? Also, do acrylic paints adhere well to them? (Not having an airbrush, I'll stick with enamel spray paint cans, but other model rocketeers who have airbrushes might prefer to use acrylic paints if they'll adhere to the resin nose cones.)

Jason;

My apologies for the delay in responding; my travels find me in Toronto just now, where I swear these guys are entering an early winter (!). Next week makes up for it, for I'll be in Honolulu...

Regarding your question, I washed the resin nose cone with soap and water, and it was then wet sanded with #320 W/D, then wiped down again. Testors Flat White worked like a champ as a primer.

As a rule, I prefer enamels and lacquers; just a point of religion with me, so I can't really comment. On the other hand, my brother is an acrylic devotee (his religion declares the fumes and the clean up/thinners of solvent-based paints as completely sinful), and his work with this paint type (he's a model railroader) borders on art. I'll have to ask him if his acrylic evangelism has had the opportunity to make an outreach to the resin community.

[blackshire]

Jason;

My apologies for the delay in responding; my travels find me in Toronto just now, where I swear these guys are entering an early winter (!). Next week makes up for it, for I'll be in Honolulu...

Regarding your question, I washed the resin nose cone with soap and water, and it was then wet sanded with #320 W/D, then wiped down again. Testors Flat White worked like a champ as a primer.

As a rule, I prefer enamels and lacquers; just a point of religion with me, so I can't really comment. On the other hand, my brother is an acrylic devotee (his religion declares the fumes and the clean up/thinners of solvent-based paints as completely sinful), and his work with this paint type (he's a model railroader) borders on art. I'll have to ask him if his acrylic evangelism has had the opportunity to make an outreach to the resin community.

John, I thank you very much for this information! It will also be helpful to other model rocketeers who use the Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" cast polyurethane resin duplicates of discontinued Centuri and Estes plastic nose cones. (We never really had a real summer to speak of in Alaska this year, and last week it suddenly vanished.)

In his book "The Art of Scale Model Rocketry," Peter Alway was very pro-acrylic (without being anti-enamel or anti-lacquer). I'm going to stick with enamel for painting resin nose cones, but acrylics do sound attractive for painting other rocket parts indoors (using a spray booth) during the winter because they have no fumes.

[K'Tesh]

Ok... I've read this thread, and I never found the answer...

I'm simming this up now, and I can't for the life of me find the length of the original Akela (I keep seeing the phrase "slightly longer than the Viking"). If someone could post that, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
Jim

[blackshire]

Ok... I've read this thread, and I never found the answer...

I'm simming this up now, and I can't for the life of me find the length of the original Akela. If someone could post that, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
JimDo you need the total length, or the body tube length? I can measure mine right now.

[K'Tesh]

Do you need the total length, or the body tube length? I can measure mine right now.

Thanks!

I could use both actually. I haven't got to the nosecone yet, but I was sure that I could scrounge that up.

While you're at it, could you post the length of the launch lug too?

[blackshire]

Ok... I've read this thread, and I never found the answer...

I'm simming this up now, and I can't for the life of me find the length of the original Akela (I keep seeing the phrase "slightly longer than the Viking"). If someone could post that, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
JimThe Akela-1's #7 body tube is 9" long, and its PNC-76 nose cone (the exposed part, not counting the tenon [shoulder]) is 3" long (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/72cen060.html ).

[K'Tesh]

The Akela-1's #7 body tube is 9" long, and its PNC-76 nose cone (the exposed part, not counting the tenon [shoulder]) is 3" long (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/72cen060.html ).

Thanks!

Any chance on that launch lug?

[blackshire]

Thanks!

Any chance on that launch lug?You're welcome. The launch lug is 2-1/4" long. I'm presuming (correctly, I hope) that the Akela-1 and the (Centuri) Viking were/are the same rocket, just with different decal sets and decor schemes.

[blackshire]

Also, the Vector-V (Semroc's as well as Centuri's) used/use the same fiber (fibre, in Centuri's "fancy lingo" :-) ) fins as the Akela-1. This is an area where 3D printing could really shine--while I know that balsa substitutes for plastic nose cones look the same when sanded, sealed, and painted, they're still lighter and more easily dented, and, well...I just prefer to "replace plastic with plastic" whenever possible, when re-creating classic kits.

[Neal Miller]

Also, the Vector-V (Semroc's as well as Centuri's) used/use the same fiber (fibre, in Centuri's "fancy lingo" :-) ) fins as the Akela-1. This is an area where 3D printing could really shine--while I know that balsa substitutes for plastic nose cones look the same when sanded, sealed, and painted, they're still lighter and more easily dented, and, well...I just prefer to "replace plastic with plastic" whenever possible, when re-creating classic kits.

Jason, send me your current address, I feel Like sending you a late Christmas present.

Neal Miller still in South Florida

[blackshire]

Jason, send me your current address, I feel Like sending you a late Christmas present.

Neal Miller still in South FloridaIt's done, and I thank you, but you really don't need to, and I can't reciprocate, being broke right now.

[K'Tesh]

You're welcome. The launch lug is 2-1/4" long. I'm presuming (correctly, I hope) that the Akela-1 and the (Centuri) Viking were/are the same rocket, just with different decal sets and decor schemes.

Thanks for the info.

As to your presumption, that seems to be the going idea. However, I'm unable to confirm that.

[gpoehlein]

As I remember it (been a LONG time), the Akela was the same as the Viking. The difference was that the Akela was available through Scouting dealers and came both singly and in 12 packs. The Akela, of course, had a different decal sheet, but was otherwise the same.