Shenzhou Build

[MarkB.]

I thought I'd start over on the build thread.

We're going to build a 1/64th (more or less) Chinese CZ-2F Shenzhou manned launcher for 24mm power.

My sources are the Shanghai Dragon 1/48 static plastic kit and photo interpretation from web pictures. I'm going to use Semroc parts. I have done the aeroshroud and booster noses on Semroc's Custom Nose Cone Designer. Hopefully they'll be available soon.

The parts list is:

1 ST-20180 Core tube
1 ST-2060 Core tube
2 ST-13180 Booster tube (cut into four 7.5" lengths)
1 BT-4HW Escape tower
1 ST-940E Engine mount
1 BTC-13 Balsa coupler (cut into 4 thin segments)
1 HTC-20 coupler
1 EB-20 ejection baffle
1 CR-9-20 Centering ring (6)
1 EH-38 Engine hook
1 CR-79 Thrust ring
1 SCK-436 Kevlar

Additionally, you'll need:

a small length of 1/4" elastic,
a screw eye
a small length of 1/2" dowel
1.5" length of 1/4 launch lug
parachutes, 24" for the booster and depending on the ballast needed, a 15" for the capsule
small piece of 1/16" plywood for fins
scrap balsa and dowels
scrap cardstock
glue and lots of white paint

We still need nose cones and decals. Hmmmm . . . .

[Bill]

You are going to need some corrugated wraps. I may just have the technology you need to make some if you cannot find suitable ready-made material.


Bill

[Pem Tech]

You are going to need some corrugated wraps. I may just have the technology you need to make some if you cannot find suitable ready-made material.


Bill

Do tell....

[Bill]

Do tell....


Copied from PM sent to MarkB. Hey, I wrote it so I can spread it around if I want to...

---

I have come up with a method of making a very nice looking wrap using common tools. You need:

1. A paper cutter. A common and inexpensive one can be had in the office supplies section of Wal-Mart for a little over $10. In addition to the way you are about to misuse it, it also comes in very handy for cutting cardstock strips to size.

2. An embossing tool. An inexpensive one can be found at Michaels. Look in the glue aisle or one of the ones adjacent to it. It comes in a clear plastic bag with a blue header and a blue oval in the middle of the clear portion, approx 7" by 1.5" and called a "double ended stylus."

3. Cardstock. I have done this with the material (64lb?) commonly sold for scrapbooking. I have not tried the heavier 110 lb stock.

The basic idea: cut a strip of cardstock the width of your wrap. Put that cardstock strip into the cutter along the paper guide as if you were going to cut a narrow strip out of its end. With the blade positioned out of the way at the other end of the clear plastic cutting wing, use the embossing tool to press the cardstock into that plastic groove the cutting blade would ride in. Remove the cardstock and admire the nice "stringer" you have just made.

By marking the cutter base next to the groove or sticking a small piece of contrasting tape or post-it-note opposite the groove from the paper guide, you have a reference mark to repeatedly make additional evenly spaced stringers.

Some further testing and measurement is necessary to determine how much this embossing causes the cardstock strip to shrink in the long dimension because that will affect the calculation of the proper spacing between adjacent stringers. Once that is done, it is conceivably possible to use a CAD program to print a cardstock strip with evenly spaced lines, then emboss along those lines to make a wrap. This technique is even applicable to making the wrap for the tapered part of the aeroshroud; good luck trying to find something like that already made.

You can buy the tools and try it or I can send you a sample of something I have done. I showed this to Carl McLawhorn at NARAM last year. Like me, he was impressed at how nice the result was. It is just not something he can commercially exploit. Not until I become smart enough to build him an embossing robot...


Bill

[MarkB.]

Yaa-Hoo!!

I haven't been able to even touch rockets because of work and other responsibilities since Christmas. I get home from work and just want to sleep. My Semroc Arcas and Aerobees have sat partially complete on their cradles waiting for me to finish them, with the rest of the "brainstorm" projects leaning on the bench below.

Then yesterday, to my surprise, out of the clear blue sky, a small Semroc box arrives. SWMBO asks what I've ordered and I assure her I haven't even been to a rocket website in months. Inside the package: The Shenzhou aeroshroud and booster noses for this project! I had designed them on the Semroc Nose Cone designer a few months ago and had asked (begged) Carl to cut them when he had a chance. I knew that the 7-section aeroshroud was going to be tough. Well, the balsa is absolutely beautiful in person.

Carl is THE MAN!

Guys, I'm going to try my best to finish this project over the next few weeks. Pictures of everything later, as soon as I find the camera.

[jharding58]

Good corrugated plastic sheet from Evergreen and Plastruct, or metal foils from Builders in Scale. Not a lot of help for corrugated reducing sections.

http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/index.htm
I
http://www.plastruct.com

http://www.builders-in-scale.com/bis/parts-metal.html

[MarkB.]

Here's the first picture of the build:

We have the two main body segments (Series 20), the four LRBs (Series 13/BT-56), the ejection baffle, the beautiful aeroshroud and the engine mount (24mm). I used my Odd'l Rockets tube cutter on the LRB tubes and it worked pretty well. The next step will be to slice a BT-56 balsa coupler into 4 segments for the base of the LRBs. At that point, I'm going to have to decide how I'm going to mount the LRBs.

On the real Shenzhou, they are mounted with two arms just under the cone and a single mount near the base. There is a noticeable gap between the main tube and the LRBs. On the model, long-term durability considerations would seem to suggest that the LRBs should be glued directly to the main body and the mounting arms made "decorative". By long-term durability, I mean not having to reattach an LRB after every landing in the scrub, rocks and compacted sand of the American Southwest. On the other hand, having the gap would be cool but using relatively tiny dowels to mount the LRBs is not something I've done before.

The second picture is my "documentation". An internet picture of a Shenzhou on the way to the pad and the drawing from the Dragon Models 1/48 instruction sheet, both blown up to the size of this build. They do NOT match up but they are close. When there is a mismatch, I go with the dimensions from the picture.

[Bill]

Maybe have the motor mount extend beyond the end of the main tube and attach four fake nozzle halves to it? The motor will take the brunt of the landing.

Otherwise, design the booster mountings to release upon impact. You may have to reattach some of the boosters after each flight, but that will not be a repair job.


Bill

[MarkB.]

Well, with the announcement that there will be a manned Shenzhou launch later this month, I'm trying to wrap this build up.

The picture shows the fins and LRBs being built. The thin balsa plugs are sliced with a razor saw from a coupler. I'll add a nozzle and glue the fins on tonight. I still need to fill the spirals and seal the balsa, but we're almost done with the LRBs.

After working with my Martha Stewart paper scorer, I'm still not getting satisfactory results. So I'm going with my scrapbook paper corregations. There are four wraps that I'll cut out and add pictures.

[hcmbanjo]

Here's the first picture of the build:
I used my Odd'l Rockets tube cutter on the LRB tubes and it worked pretty well.

Hi Mark,
On the Odd'l Rockets Cutter Tool:
Be sure you start turning the tube before you lower the razor blade.
In other words, start turning the tube, lower the blade and continue turning.
This is something I've since added to the Cutter Tool instructions and it makes all the difference in the world!

I've also started a Shenzhou. When did you find the line drawings?

[luke strawwalker]

Do tell....

Guess what I found at Hobby Lobby-- EMBOSSED PAPER! And I found it in HUGE sheets...

Go back to the section where they keep the Bristol Board, art papers, posterboard, etc... the huge vertical racks holding the sheets horizontally from about 5 feet high to down near the floor-- just beside the matte board from every Hobby Lobby that I've been in...

Somewhere in all those horizontal slots will be some material about maybe 3/4 the size of a posterboard or so, with 1/8 inch wide ribs across it evenly spaced. I used similar ribbed cardstock in 8.5 X 11 sheet form that I got at a scrapbooking store in Indiana for the "coarser" intertank and thrust structure ribbing on my BT-80 Saturn V S-IC first stage... for the smaller, finer ribbing on the S-II interstage, fore and aft skirts on the S-IC, S-II, and S-IVB, I used foil-covered fine ribbed corrugated cardstock that I got at Michaels in the scrapbooking aisle... details in the "BT-80 Saturn V" thread of mine around here...

The large sheet of Hobby Lobby stuff is marked "Strathmore Ridge-Artic" and sells for $1.79 a sheet (before the 40% discount LOL:)

Can't beat that... :)

Later! OL JR :)

[MarkB.]

The line drawing is the one on the instruction sheet for the Dragon Models 1/48 scale static kit. I blew up the drawing on my office copy machine (by piecing together multiple sheets of regular size paper) until the core diameter measurement matched my Series 20 core tubing.

I'm also using the plastic kit itself as a measurement resource. My order of priority is a measured dimension from the picture, a measured dimension on the static kit (multiplied by 48 and divided by 64) and the line drawing as I believe the line drawing to be the least accurate of the three.

What size are you building?

I did struggle a little with the cutter, but I appreciate the tip. I'm sure that practice would help, also.

[Tau Zero]

Hi Mark,
On the Odd'l Rockets Cutter Tool:
Be sure you start turning the tube before you lower the razor blade.
In other words, start turning the tube, lower the blade and continue turning.
This is something I've since added to the Cutter Tool instructions and it makes all the difference in the world!GAH!

Thanks for the heads-up, Chris. I'll add that step to my technique! :D

[luke strawwalker]

Copied from PM sent to MarkB. Hey, I wrote it so I can spread it around if I want to...

This technique is even applicable to making the wrap for the tapered part of the aeroshroud; good luck trying to find something like that already made.

You can buy the tools and try it or I can send you a sample of something I have done. I showed this to Carl McLawhorn at NARAM last year. Like me, he was impressed at how nice the result was. It is just not something he can commercially exploit. Not until I become smart enough to build him an embossing robot...


Bill

Ya know I had a thought about that...

I was goofing around in Hobby Lobby the other day and saw something interesting that gave me an idea... it was some sort of knitting device that had a row of pegs along one side evenly spaced... I guess you loop your yarn over the pegs, going back and forth and then go from there...

What if one had a board or better yet an aluminum or brass or even steel bar, with appropriately spaced and appropriate depth/height "runners" all the way across its surface that could be run (slid) across a sheet of cardstock like a silkscreen wiper... embossing the paper the full width in one fell swoop... just have to affix the cardstock in a frame to hold it firmly, and have sufficient downforce and enough "give" in the backing to allow the tool to press (emboss) grooves in the cardstock as it's slid across...

The idea could be tested with something as simple as a board with trim nails or staples carefully driven in at the appropriate spacing... (and if using trim nails, having them nice and smooth and/or their heads rounded over so as not to cut or tear the paper).

Of course that doesn't do much for you where you have to arrange ribs RADIALLY (such as on conical transitions or on conical section fairings...) but then you can't get off-the-shelf material to do that either...

The other alternative I've thought of-- ROLLERS... maybe a stack of fender washers, appropriately spaced with regular washers to create a diameter difference between the larger fender washers which will do the embossing, and the smaller regular washers to keep them evenly spaced, with the whole thing held firmly together either on a bolt or peice of all-thread rod with a nut on each end tightened up firmly... could even make a handle for it that would increase the capability of putting more downpressure to get better embossing...

What we need is something like a printer head, running a rolling stylus (like say a fender washer or something similar, probably mounted precisely with a bearing or something... maybe a bushing; just something to keep the thing rolling true and repeatable.... slide the paper in, run the stylus across the sheet... slide it down another 1/16 to 1/8 inch, run it across again... over and over and over again, just like a printer...

As for the conical transition stuff, well, that's gonna be a toughie... unless you're going to have something like a CNC machine operating a universal-direction embossing tool head... (maybe like a dull version of a swiveling blade hobby knife??)

Just thinking out loud...

Later! OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

Well, with the announcement that there will be a manned Shenzhou launch later this month, I'm trying to wrap this build up.

The picture shows the fins and LRBs being built. The thin balsa plugs are sliced with a razor saw from a coupler. I'll add a nozzle and glue the fins on tonight. I still need to fill the spirals and seal the balsa, but we're almost done with the LRBs.

After working with my Martha Stewart paper scorer, I'm still not getting satisfactory results. So I'm going with my scrapbook paper corregations. There are four wraps that I'll cut out and add pictures.

I had pretty good results on my BT-80 Saturn V conical S-II transition and S-IC conical section engine fairings by using an old mouse pad as a backing and running over the cardstock with an old non-functioning ball point pen to do the actual embossing...

Later and KUTGW!!! OL JR :)

[MarkB.]

My Hobby Lobby had Strathmore Arctic also, so I'm going to use it. My only concern is that the paper is so fine that it will not accept my usual heavy coat of paint without filling the indentions. But what the heck, it's worth a try.

I also decided to use some cut dry-wall patch mesh to simulate the mesh section farther up the core.

Pictures as soon as my wife gets home with the camera.

[MarkB.]

Finally had a chance to do some work:

Picture 1 shows the core pieces ready for assembly. I used golf club epoxy (which has a very long setting time and is a cool black color) to glue in the motor mount. I added a baffle and "trapped" the baffle under the coupler. This was attached with yellow glue. After all of the above was dry, I attached the upper core segment.

Picture 2 shows the intial construction.

Picture 3 shows the baffle under the coupler. Hopefully, this will help prevent the baffle-out-the-top failure mode.


Next up will be the addition of the corregated sections and other core tube details. I am not using the Strathmore Ridge paper from Hobby Lobby. While it has fine corregaions for something like a small Saturn V, the pictures and documentation I have shows some very large, course corregations on the real Shenzhou so I'm going with a piece of scrapbook ridged paper I liberated from SWMBO's hoard.

[MarkB.]

Making Progress:

Picture 1 shows the wraps cut and the paper shows my work. For this I used measurements from the picture and the model only. The bottom wrap is on top the width is 1 17/32 " and the length on this and all of the wraps is 6 7/16 ". The second, medium wrap was 27/32 " and the third of the three lower wraps was 9/16 ". The upper wrap was 1 1/32 ".

I drew a line down the length of the tube. I then held the wrap in place and drew a pencil line around the tube to show were I needed to spread glue. I used yellow glue and squeeged it to a thin layer with an old credit card. I glued each wrap individually, waited an hour and then glued the next one, drawing a pencil line each time. I left a very small but noticable gap between each wrap. The joint will be hidden under a LRB.

Picure 2 shows the core with the wraps in place. I need to add conduit and a few other details.

As a research note, the latest version of the Shenzhou booster, called CZ-2F/G or CZ-2F "second series" as used on the Shenzhou 8 and 9 missions, has only the largest of the three lower wraps. This new version represents a redesign to lessen the vibration that was so bad it made the first taikonauts sick during the boost phase. I'm building the Shenzhou 5, the first manned launch, but if this works, I'll talk Carl out of another set of cones for a second series build.

[MarkB.]

Finally got some more time, so here's a picture of the strap-on LRBs with their fins on. Note that the fins overhang the rear of the boosters which makes them a little tough to paint. The fins are ply, sealed with yellow glue and smoothed with a thick coat of high-build gray primer. The next step is to spray them with Rustoleum Premium gloss white and then paint blue stripes top and bottom.

As a general proposition, I'm going to mask off the glueing surfaces for the LRBs and the main tube, finish painting them separately and then glue them together. I'm not a fan of this method but there appears to be no other way.

[Bill]

Next up will be the addition of the corregated sections and other core tube details. I am not using the Strathmore Ridge paper from Hobby Lobby. While it has fine corregaions for something like a small Saturn V, the pictures and documentation I have shows some very large, course corregations on the real Shenzhou so I'm going with a piece of scrapbook ridged paper I liberated from SWMBO's hoard.


In case you are not happy with that cardstock, there is a brand of sheet styrene you may want to examine. The company is JTT and the last time I was there, Hal's Hobby Warehouse had a rack of it along the back wall a little to the left of the centerline of the store.


Bill

[MarkB.]

Geez, Bill, what are you doing all the way out in my barrio?

Funny you should mention that plastic. I rarely get out to Hal's Hobby as its on the other side of town but I was out there about a week ago, and I did spot that plastic. I also managed to pick up what is probably a re-release of the Revell 1/48 Gemini and Mercury kit for $15.

While I'm waiting for the paint to dry on Shenzhou, I noted that the new Soyuz 1 core is about to have its first flight from the Russian launch site at Plesetsk. The new core has an increase in diameter from 2 meters to 2.6 meters and has the old four-chamber RD-108 engine replaced with a developed, single chamber NK-33 from the failed N-1 moon rocket. The lower fairings for the vernier rockets are eliminated. Finally, the lower tapered section that mates to the launch pad is shortened (because of the increase in diameter of the core).

The initial flight tests are for the core only without the familiar four strap-on boosters. No word on when the strap-ons will be added or when/if the new rocket will be man-rated. I expect they're waiting to see how the test goes first.

Check out russianspaceweb.com for more info.

From a modeling point of view this is great news as a 1/64 Soyuz I (either Sandman's or the Alway plan) would now have a constant BT-60/Series 16 core.

[luke strawwalker]

Geez, Bill, what are you doing all the way out in my barrio?

Funny you should mention that plastic. I rarely get out to Hal's Hobby as its on the other side of town but I was out there about a week ago, and I did spot that plastic. I also managed to pick up what is probably a re-release of the Revell 1/48 Gemini and Mercury kit for $15.

While I'm waiting for the paint to dry on Shenzhou, I noted that the new Soyuz 1 core is about to have its first flight from the Russian launch site at Plesetsk. The new core has an increase in diameter from 2 meters to 2.6 meters and has the old four-chamber RD-108 engine replaced with a developed, single chamber NK-33 from the failed N-1 moon rocket. The lower fairings for the vernier rockets are eliminated. Finally, the lower tapered section that mates to the launch pad is shortened (because of the increase in diameter of the core).

The initial flight tests are for the core only without the familiar four strap-on boosters. No word on when the strap-ons will be added or when/if the new rocket will be man-rated. I expect they're waiting to see how the test goes first.

Check out russianspaceweb.com for more info.

From a modeling point of view this is great news as a 1/64 Soyuz I (either Sandman's or the Alway plan) would now have a constant BT-60/Series 16 core.


Got a link??

Later! OL JR :)

[MarkB.]

Wish granted.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz1_lv.html

[luke strawwalker]

thanks, I appreciate it!

Cool... now they just need some upgraded boosters to go with it... :)

Later! OL JR :)

[Bill]

Geez, Bill, what are you doing all the way out in my barrio?


Just passing through on the way to the left coast.


Check out russianspaceweb.com for more info.

From a modeling point of view this is great news as a 1/64 Soyuz I (either Sandman's or the Alway plan) would now have a constant BT-60/Series 16 core.

But it looks so plain without the boosters...


Bill

[MarkB.]

Making progress . . . .

I've actually accomplished quite a bit. The picture shows the sustainer and the LRBs in white. Paint is Rustoleum Premium Gloss white over Duplicolor grey primer. After installing it I realized I had screwed up and had to rotate the launch lug one quadrant. I also removed my experiment with using dry wall patch to simulate details on the upper stage. The effect was too pronounced in this scale. A little sanding, a little primer and you can't tell at all.

I also worked with Gordy at Excelsior (known here on YORF as "Sandman") for decals. He was able to sort through what I was shooting for via my increasingly incoherent emails and I now have a great set of 1/64 Shenzhou decals ready to go.

The next step is to paint the various blue stripes on both sustainer and boosters. Paint will be Rustoleum Premium Sail Blue to more or less match the decals.

[MarkB.]

Yahoo !!!

Booster's mostly done. Here's a picture with my old Alpha for scale. Like building a Russian R-7, there's a tremendous sense of accomplishment when you attach the LRBs. I ended up epoxying them on to plastic rails that I inset into the paper corregations. I mixed a small amount of epoxy and worked very slowly making sure the fin was pointed out. I'd let each booster set for a couple of hours before doing the next one.

What's next? Well, I need some small paper nozzles for the LRBs and I'll add the decals Gordy made for me. That will complete the booster. Then I'll tackle the aeroshroud and escape tower.

The end is in sight.

[MarkB.]

DISASTER!

Or perhaps: When good Future goes bad.

Or: The Future is green.

In preparation for adding the fabulous decals Sandman made for me, I applied two coats of Future, one right after the other, only to those areas which were to receive decals. I usually let these dry overnight and when I woke up the next morning : the Future had dried with a distinctly greenish tint.

Oh, the humanity!

Now, its fairly well-documented that eventually, Future will do exactly this over time. When it's fresh, it's clear to bluish but when it gets old, it gets greenish. I've had this bottle since at least 2000 so I definitely got good use out of it. Also, looking back, I haven't built anything white in a while where it would have been apparent that the Future had gone green. It may have been greenish for months or even a year or two. So henceforth, this bottle of Future will be marked for tanks and missiles only.

I grieved for a day or two. This morning, I carefully masked off the blue stripes and resprayed Rustoleum gloss white over the Future tinted areas. The masking took forever. But all is well, the white came out fine. I'll let it dry a day or so before we revisit the decals.

Make sure to keep your Future fresh.

[luke strawwalker]

DISASTER!

Or perhaps: When good Future goes bad.

Or: The Future is green.

In preparation for adding the fabulous decals Sandman made for me, I applied two coats of Future, one right after the other, only to those areas which were to receive decals. I usually let these dry overnight and when I woke up the next morning : the Future had dried with a distinctly greenish tint.

Oh, the humanity!

Now, its fairly well-documented that eventually, Future will do exactly this over time. When it's fresh, it's clear to bluish but when it gets old, it gets greenish. I've had this bottle since at least 2000 so I definitely got good use out of it. Also, looking back, I haven't built anything white in a while where it would have been apparent that the Future had gone green. It may have been greenish for months or even a year or two. So henceforth, this bottle of Future will be marked for tanks and missiles only.

I grieved for a day or two. This morning, I carefully masked off the blue stripes and resprayed Rustoleum gloss white over the Future tinted areas. The masking took forever. But all is well, the white came out fine. I'll let it dry a day or so before we revisit the decals.

Make sure to keep your Future fresh.

Ammonia dissolves Future... so Windex usually takes the stuff right off...

Did you give that a whirl??

Later and sorry for your problems... thanks for the heads up... I've got a bottle of Future I bought a few years ago for this purpose... sounds like I better actually use it on the floor... LOL:)

Thanks! OL JR :)

[MarkB.]

Exclesior Fabulousity!

I had a morning of decals, first with my son, then on my own. Gordy of Excelsior Decals (known here as Sandman) made some custom decals for my son's Alway/BMS 1/4.6 Arcas model. This was his first decal project; an "ARCAS" on each side. I did the first one and he did the second one. They came out fine.

Gordy also made the custom Shenzhou decals and they fit perfectly. The only glitch was when I installed the Chinese letters upside down. I was able to get them back on the carrier paper and re-orient them. (no pun intended). The blue of the decals was a very close match to the Sail Blue Rustoleum. I did have to slit the checkerboard patterns for the LRBs so the decal would fit over the fins. Other than that, no problems.

I can't say enough good things about Gordy and Excelsior. He made the project doable. I highly recommend him.

I've started on the aeroshroud and escape tower. I'm thinking of using the tips of golf tees for the escape motors but we'll see . . . .

[jharding58]

Great build of a sadly under-produced launcher. As far a Gordy is concerned hevis simply tough to beat. He did some exceptional work on the Russian Vertikal sounding rocket, both the Cyrillic and the teeny tiny flags.

One suggestion; a corded pencil sharpener and a 1/4" dowel will give you a fairly reasonable set of engine bells. I suggest a corded sharpener is that there is a lot of torque to handle the wood.

[Bill]

Gordy also made the custom Shenzhou decals and they fit perfectly. The only glitch was when I installed the Chinese letters upside down. I was able to get them back on the carrier paper and re-orient them. (no pun intended). The blue of the decals was a very close match to the Sail Blue Rustoleum. I did have to slit the checkerboard patterns for the LRBs so the decal would fit over the fins. Other than that, no problems.


I guess Gordon forgot to tell you to hold the rocket upside down when applying those decals since China is on the opposite side of the world...


Bill

[MarkB.]

Just a quick update:

I had a further disaster: I accidently knocked the booster off my build table and to my horror, one of the LRBs popped off cleanly. (I was surprised as nothing had fallen off when I was flying it around the house making rocket noises.) Some poking with my fingernail revealed that its epoxy bond was very brittle. I jiggled one of the others and sure enough it popped off, too.

Well, to make a long story short, I ended up removing all four boosters. All of the epoxy was brittle and peeled off without any trouble at all. Heck, I didn't even blemish the paint. Then, because that's the way I roll, I started picking at the plastic standoffs the boosters had been glued to and sure enough they popped off the main tube as well, victims of the same brittle epoxy.

So now I'm working on new wooden standoffs. Hopefully, I'll get it back together this weekend and return to finishing the aeroshroud.