Upcoming Estes kits at NARAM 53

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Some pretty impressive birds in this bunch. I got to see the Hi-Flier upscale fly, which was impressive. The Mosquito upscale and an upcoming pop-pod glider also looked good. I only caught the tail end of the Xarconian Cruiser flight.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234311.jpg
L to R: Asteroid Hunter, Mosquito upscale, Zarconian Cruiser, Hi-Flier upscale, Maxi-Alpha 3, forgot the name of this one.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234309.jpg

MIRV packaging.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234310.jpg

John Brohm models the MIRV cluster mount.

[tbzep]

And at the far left, the new nosecone based on the old Odyssey kit. :cool:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234308.jpg

Mega Mosquito packaging.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234306.jpg

Mega Mosquito.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234447.jpg

Hooking up the Mega Mosquito

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234470.jpg

Mega Mosquito liftoff.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

And at the far left, the new nosecone based on the old Odyssey kit. :cool:
I'M GETTING THERE!!! :mad:
I have another John Brohm model shot if you'll hold your pants on. :rolleyes:

Thank you for holding.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234301.jpg :cool:

[Ltvscout]

Thanks for the pics/reporting from NARAM on the new Estes goodies, Bill!

[Ltvscout]

John, get that new cone into your nosecone list! :D

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

The big bird to the right of the Mega Mosquito was made from recycled water bottles. It came back in over the flightline and whacked some guy in the head. It broke a fin, but not any skin. Solid hit, though. This is a shot of the aftermath.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234509.jpg

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Thanks for the pics/reporting from NARAM on the new Estes goodies, Bill!
I've got more, but I need to hit the pool for a while.

[tbzep]

The big bird to the right of the Mega Mosquito was made from recycled water bottles. It came back in over the flightline and whacked some guy in the head. It broke a fin, but not any skin. Solid hit, though. This is a shot of the aftermath.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234509.jpg
Looks like one of Art Upton's cameras taped on it. I hope the owner puts the head shot video online. :cool:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Looks like one of Art Upton's cameras taped on it. I hope the owner puts the head shot video online. :cool:

I noticed that just after the pic posted. The guy who took the hit was unhurt, but slightly mortified. I didn't want to ask him to pose for a post-impact shot. :rolleyes:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234312.jpg

The upcoming Asteroid Hunter.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234313.jpg

Asteroid Hunter belly shot.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234317.jpg

Asteroid Hunter shell with nose and tail cone. :cool: (Sorry. I adjusted this one, but it didn't take.)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234298.jpg

John models the Asteroid Hunter shell. Didn't see this one fly. Yet. :rolleyes: :D

[Jerry Irvine]

I think it is both funny and cool the Mosquito includes an original Mosquito in the kit.

The Asteroid Hunter has built up construction not so much for weight reduction but for arbitrary shape technology. I did it for weight reduction in the 80's.

Nice photos and more to the point, nice products!

Jerry

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234307.jpg

Xarconian Cruiser packaging.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234302.jpg

Xarconian Cruiser and Hi-Flier upscale.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234635.jpg

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234636.jpg

Hi-Flier ignition and liftoff. :cool:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Really liked the looks of the tube cutting guide. That's one I'll definitely pick up when I see one. I did see a couple of people flying with the engine adapters and heard no complaints. I was going to head out along vendor row, but the hurricane rolled in before I could get over that way. By the time it blew out, my second RSO shift was started. :D Hopefully, I'll get to visit the rest of the vendors on Sunday.

[tbzep]

What's the little BT-5ish size red and white upper section behind the Mansquito?

[LeeR]

Bill,

The Asteroid Hunter is pretty nice -- did you find out when it will be released?

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

What's the little BT-5ish size red and white upper section behind the Mansquito?

I think that's the pop-pod for the little glider. I'll have to find the pics of it flying.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Bill,

The Asteroid Hunter is pretty nice -- did you find out when it will be released?
Not yet, but I'll ask tomorrow. I was one in a crowd of many admirers. ;)

[John Brohm]

...

John models the Asteroid Hunter shell. Didn't see this one fly. Yet. :rolleyes: :D

Great to finally meet Bill in person (and Mr. Poehlien as well). As Bill has reported, some fine product displayed under the Big E tent. The Asteroid Hunter has a very impressive built up construction that I think will be a lot of fun to build; clearly a builder's kit.

That Odyssey nose cone (and for that matter, the "Orion" cone on the Asteroid Hunter) is from new tooling, and it's very noticeable in the sharpness of the detail and the very subtle seam lines. They've done a very good job with these new nose cones. Definitely a company that's listening, and trying to respond to the hobbyist. Well done Estes!

The other item I'll report is that there were very strong clues in the presentation made during this evening's Vendor's Forum that we can expect a re-release of the Pershing (at least that's what I interpreted from the clues). Again, well done Estes.

[tbzep]

Great to finally meet Bill in person (and Mr. Poehlien as well). As Bill has reported, some fine product displayed under the Big E tent. The Asteroid Hunter has a very impressive built up construction that I think will be a lot of fun to build; clearly a builder's kit.

That Odyssey nose cone (and for that matter, the "Orion" cone on the Asteroid Hunter) is from new tooling, and it's very noticeable in the sharpness of the detail and the very subtle seam lines. They've done a very good job with these new nose cones. Definitely a company that's listening, and trying to respond to the hobbyist. Well done Estes!

The other item I'll report is that there were very strong clues in the presentation made during this evening's Vendor's Forum that we can expect a re-release of the Pershing (at least that's what I interpreted from the clues). Again, well done Estes.
I'm looking forward to getting my hands on that NC to clone an Odyssey. The Pershing re-release is good news. I have an original that's hanging from my ceiling, retired. I'd like to get hold of another and mod it with a removable motor mount. It's underpowered on a single D12-3, so I'd like to have the option for a triple C6 cluster for small fields and 24mm E/F APCP for larger ones. (I have no desire to go 29mm, yet GH will probably chime in that it needs a 38mm mount! :chuckle: )

[mwtoelle]

(snip) (I have no desire to go 29mm, yet GH will probably chime in that it needs a 38mm mount! :chuckle: )

I think he would want to fly it 98mm motors. 54mm motors at the minimum. ;)

[Bluegrass Rocket]

A friend of mine and I were walking down vendors row and had just checked out some of the Estes new stuff, when we saw the new big Mosquito take offf. I'm watchiing John chasing it down to see how far it drifts and just talking about the new kits, not paying much attention, when "BAM" a rocket hits me in the head.

Yes, it was I that got whacked in the head mentioned earlier in this thread. Just another day in the life of a rocketeer.

I think everyone will like the new Estes stuff. At the Manufacturers Forum John talked about many new things. He said he got the O.K. to do a large scale kit for use with the new Aerotech made motors. He hinted around. Maybe a Nike Smoke but, I don't know for sure.

[mrhemi1971]

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234312.jpg

The upcoming Asteroid Hunter.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234313.jpg

Asteroid Hunter belly shot.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234317.jpg

Asteroid Hunter shell with nose and tail cone. :cool: (Sorry. I adjusted this one, but it didn't take.)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234298.jpg

John models the Asteroid Hunter shell. Didn't see this one fly. Yet. :rolleyes: :D


MUST HAVE NOW!!!!!

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

A friend of mine and I were walking down vendors row and had just checked out some of the Estes new stuff, when we saw the new big Mosquito take offf. I'm watchiing John chasing it down to see how far it drifts and just talking about the new kits, not paying much attention, when "BAM" a rocket hits me in the head.

Yes, it was I that got whacked in the head mentioned earlier in this thread. Just another day in the life of a rocketeer.

I think everyone will like the new Estes stuff. At the Manufacturers Forum John talked about many new things. He said he got the O.K. to do a large scale kit for use with the new Aerotech made motors. He hinted around. Maybe a Nike Smoke but, I don't know for sure.

:D Man, you got away so fast that I didn't get a chance to introduce myself. I just happened to look up because I heard you say something and I thought it might have been directed at me. I think I remember hearing the horn go off and people behind me shouting, but I also think that it was only a second or two before impact, so you'd have had to have been almost staring at the rocket to have had a chance to dodge it. Glad that there was no damage to your head. :eek: There were a lot of kids around, so you can always say you threw yourself into the path of a speeding rocket to save them. Also glad that I was able to curb my tendency to blurt an F-bomb in that situation. Maybe I'm growing up after all. ;) If you're around at all the rest of the week, stop by the shelter and say hello. I have range duty today, Thursday and Friday.

[mrhemi1971]

I am so depressed that I cant be there right now, it sounds like it's gonna be a banner year for NARAM. I just hope it's close by next year..

[JonSivier]

L to R: Asteroid Hunter, Mosquito upscale, Zarconian Cruiser, Hi-Flier upscale, Maxi-Alpha 3, forgot the name of this one.
One of our members flew a prototype Asteroid Hunter at our last couple of launches. It's a cool looking kit, but it may not be ready for prime time quite yet. With an 18 mm motor mount it is underpowered on a C6-3. Also the offset launch lug can cause it to bind on the rod, and it's a bit too heavy for an 1/8 inch rod. Hopefully with a little redesign the launch lug/rod problem can be fixed, by giving it a couple of 3/16 inch lugs placed closer to the thrust center line. If it can be modified to take a 24 mm motor that would be great, but if not then this model will be a good rocket to make use of composite D's.

Jonathan
-----
Jonathan Sivier
jsivier AT illinois DOT edu
NAR #56437 | Tripoli #1906
Home Page: http://www.sivier.me/
CIA Web Site: http://www.CIARocketry.org/

[Jerry Irvine]

Also the offset launch lug can cause it to bind on the rod, and it's a bit too heavy for an 1/8 inch rod. Hopefully with a little redesign the launch lug/rod problem can be fixed, by giving it a couple of 3/16 inch lugs placed closer to the thrust center line.
We made several prototype kits with generally pyramid shapes and had similar experiences. We ended up putting 1/4" launch lugs (our primary size) near the motor mount or core tube depending on what you want to call it. They still suffer from low static stability and even adding considerable mass with a resin nose cone doesn't help much in a cross-wind.

Jerry

[Bill]

I think everyone will like the new Estes stuff. At the Manufacturers Forum John talked about many new things. He said he got the O.K. to do a large scale kit for use with the new Aerotech made motors. He hinted around. Maybe a Nike Smoke but, I don't know for sure.


His actual words were diamond shaped fins and a long nose cone.


Bill

[Mark II]

I am so depressed that I cant be there right now, it sounds like it's gonna be a banner year for NARAM. I just hope it's close by next year..+1. My thoughts exactly!

[Shreadvector]

Good to see the scaled up Hi-Flyer is stable.

The normal one is almost always unstable with C motors. It needs to be 3 inches longer or use a heavier nose cone. It is fine on 1/2A6 and A8 motors and barely stable on B motors (dances around a LOT on the way up).

yes, it sells a lot, but customers would be much happier if it was very stable on C motors. And, YES, I know that 99.9% of American consumers will not report a problem with a product - they assume that THEY must have done something wrong or that "it was supposed to do that".

We fix them for flyers that want to fly them at our club launches using a C motor by providing clay weight for the nose cone. We cannot have a model fly off into the brush in the park we launch in. It would be very bad.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234307.jpg

Xarconian Cruiser packaging.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234302.jpg

Xarconian Cruiser and Hi-Flier upscale.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234635.jpg

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234636.jpg

Hi-Flier ignition and liftoff. :cool:

[gpoehlein]

Good to see the scaled up Hi-Flyer is stable.

The normal one is almost always unstable with C motors. It needs to be 3 inches longer or use a heavier nose cone. It is fine on 1/2A6 and A8 motors and barely stable on B motors (dances around a LOT on the way up).

yes, it sells a lot, but customers would be much happier if it was very stable on C motors. And, YES, I know that 99.9% of American consumers will not report a problem with a product - they assume that THEY must have done something wrong or that "it was supposed to do that".

We fix them for flyers that want to fly them at our club launches using a C motor by providing clay weight for the nose cone. We cannot have a model fly off into the brush in the park we launch in. It would be very bad.

I wonder that part of the popularity of the Hi-Flyer isn't the price? After all, it was (before the price increase) only $6.95 where the Wizard, Yankee and Viking were all $8.95 or higher. I buy Hi-Flyers all the time for kit bashing, both because of the lower price and also the Hi-Flyer actually has the longest body tube of the three. So far, the only Hi-Flier I built AS a Hi-Flier was built with a 13mm motor mount. Flies fine like that. I can imagine when Estes brings out the plastic motor adapters (I got to fly with one Sunday - they are actually quite nice) that will be great for flying 1/2A3, A3 and A10 motors in the Hi-Flyer.

That said, I DO like the lines of the Hi-Flyer and do plan to build more as time permits, as well as other mods. I have plans on the drawing board for a booster for the Hi-Flier that extends the shape of the fins on the booster stage - I think it will be 13mm for A10-0T motors if it can be built light enough. I'll definitely be building the upscale when it comes out.

Hmm... BT-50 upscale using the PNC-50Y and BT-5 downscale using the Quark nose cone, anyone? :p Guess I'll have to try the latter with a MMX motor mount! :D

[ghrocketman]

No 38mm on a Pershing 1A maxi-brute, but absolutely DO think ANY 4" diameter rocket should have a 29mm mount ALWAYS !
If it is 4" in diameter and cannot handle your average F52 or G64 reload, it is UNDERBUILT.
NO exceptions.

[tbzep]

No 38mm on a Pershing 1A maxi-brute, but absolutely DO think ANY 4" diameter rocket should have a 29mm mount ALWAYS !
If it is 4" in diameter and cannot handle your average F52 or G64 reload, it is UNDERBUILT.
NO exceptions.
You must be a civil engineer instead of aeronautical. :D

[ghrocketman]

Nah, EE, but believe in building flying tanks to survive REAL rocket-thrust and landing without breaking anything on the rocket no matter what the landing surface is.

"Build strong like OX !"

If it is 4" diameter and can turn in a decent (over 250') flight on a D12-3, it ain't much of a rocket !

If I got hit in the head with a rocket, the F-bombs WOULD be flying around and those with virginal ears (children or NOT) would need to don ear plugs if they could not handle it.

[tbzep]

Nah, EE, but believe in building flying tanks to survive REAL rocket-thrust and landing without breaking anything on the rocket no matter what the landing surface is.

:chuckle: Just laughing and thinking about the civil guys overdesigning bridges and buildings to hold up with the USS Nimitz sitting on top of them compared to the aeronautical guys that have to deal with every extra ounce taking away mph and mpg. :p

[Jerry Irvine]

Estes 4" rockets are never "overbuilt". They are lightweight and can fly underpowerd by design and simply need a bigger chute.

Here's a rocket designed to be speed limited, but can literally fly from as little as C11-3 (piston launched) to a 240H60.

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/el_lubbo.htm

http://v-serv.com/usr/kits/ellubbo.assembedrear.jpg

Jerry

[Bill]

You must be a civil engineer instead of aeronautical. :D


My favorite quote along those lines has to be: mechanical engineers design bombs; civil engineers, targets.


Bill

[LeeR]

I tend to like to build on the lightweight side, but there is plenty to be said for beefing up a design. I use thick wall 24mm tubes so they last longer flying with composites, but I'll also use paper or cardstock centering rings instead of plywood, I just strengthen them using basswood or even balsa "spokes" that run from motor tube to body tube, laying on the centering ring, to add stiffness. And I've added CA to fins to toughen them, such as on the swept-back tips of an Estes Super Alpha.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

My favorite quote along those lines has to be: mechanical engineers design bombs; civil engineers, targets.


Bill
:chuckle:

[blackshire]

Good to see the scaled up Hi-Flyer is stable.

The normal one is almost always unstable with C motors. It needs to be 3 inches longer or use a heavier nose cone...-SNIP-...We fix them for flyers that want to fly them at our club launches using a C motor by providing clay weight for the nose cone. We cannot have a model fly off into the brush in the park we launch in. It would be very bad.Why? Our borough just conducted a brush burn-off at union-scale rates--you all could do it free! :-)

[blackshire]

I wonder that part of the popularity of the Hi-Flyer isn't the price? After all, it was (before the price increase) only $6.95 where the Wizard, Yankee and Viking were all $8.95 or higher. I buy Hi-Flyers all the time for kit bashing, both because of the lower price and also the Hi-Flyer actually has the longest body tube of the three. So far, the only Hi-Flier I built AS a Hi-Flier was built with a 13mm motor mount. Flies fine like that. I can imagine when Estes brings out the plastic motor adapters (I got to fly with one Sunday - they are actually quite nice) that will be great for flying 1/2A3, A3 and A10 motors in the Hi-Flyer.

That said, I DO like the lines of the Hi-Flyer and do plan to build more as time permits, as well as other mods. I have plans on the drawing board for a booster for the Hi-Flier that extends the shape of the fins on the booster stage - I think it will be 13mm for A10-0T motors if it can be built light enough. I'll definitely be building the upscale when it comes out.

Hmm... BT-50 upscale using the PNC-50Y and BT-5 downscale using the Quark nose cone, anyone? :p Guess I'll have to try the latter with a MMX motor mount! :DAn idea: The BT-20 size Hi-Flyer might make a good--if fast--13 mm axisymmetric rocket glider (rather like the unpowered Walleye air-to-ground missile, whose large delta fins served as wings). The model's ejection charge could be ducted in such a way as to push a ballast mass (or perhaps even the 13 mm motor mount itself, with an extended BT-5 motor tube) an inch or so rearward (without ejecting it) to cause the rocket to glide.

[JumpJet]

Any body got a picture of the new Estes Tercel Glider. I flew it four times over the weekend.


John Boren

[Shreadvector]

Any body got a picture of the new Estes Tercel Glider. I flew it four times over the weekend.


John Boren

Only stills from the Manufacturer's Forum are online at this point in time:

http://www.naramlive.com/naramlive-2011/naramlive/02saturday/day2-manforum-.html (http://www.naramlive.com/naramlive-2011/naramlive/02saturday/day2-manforum-.html)


Any possibility of working with Larry Renger again, now that BT is no longer around? Sky Dart XL?

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Any body got a picture of the new Estes Tercel Glider. I flew it four times over the weekend.


John Boren

I have a flight sequence. I'm working to download it now.

[luke strawwalker]

Great to finally meet Bill in person (and Mr. Poehlien as well). As Bill has reported, some fine product displayed under the Big E tent. The Asteroid Hunter has a very impressive built up construction that I think will be a lot of fun to build; clearly a builder's kit.

That Odyssey nose cone (and for that matter, the "Orion" cone on the Asteroid Hunter) is from new tooling, and it's very noticeable in the sharpness of the detail and the very subtle seam lines. They've done a very good job with these new nose cones. Definitely a company that's listening, and trying to respond to the hobbyist. Well done Estes!

The other item I'll report is that there were very strong clues in the presentation made during this evening's Vendor's Forum that we can expect a re-release of the Pershing (at least that's what I interpreted from the clues). Again, well done Estes.

Yep, second that... I forgot to mention it in my "Vendor's Meeting" report... thanks for jogging my memory!

I even asked about a Pershing II (since I like its looks better) and John said he's not a fan of the Pershing II... cest la vis... :)

Later! OL JR :)

[blackshire]

Yep, second that... I forgot to mention it in my "Vendor's Meeting" report... thanks for jogging my memory!

I even asked about a Pershing II (since I like its looks better) and John said he's not a fan of the Pershing II... cest la vis... :)

Later! OL JR :)I'll bet Semroc makes more than a few kits that they don't consider aesthetically pleasing--but that customers are willing to buy in quantity...

[JumpJet]

I believe someone should create a Poll to see what the results would be on the choice between a Pershing 1A versus a Pershing 2.

The poll could read.

If a kit manufacturer offered you a choice in bringing out either a Pershing 1A or a Pershing 2 in the same scale, which version would you choose.


Of course the out come of this poll won't reflect which version I would do for Estes if in fact one is done at all since:

A: As the head of Estes R&D I have a pretty big influence on which model would be chosen.

B: I have a bunch of scale data on the Pershing 1A including the fact I can visit a real one any time I want at our local air museum to get as much new scale data as needed. Plus I've never personally seen a Pershing 2, nor do I have good scale data on one.

John Boren
Estes R & D

[ghrocketman]

One word answer to the Pershing 1A vs Pershing II kit offering:

BOTH !!!!

[Bill]

I believe someone should create a Poll to see what the results would be on the choice between a Pershing 1A versus a Pershing 2.

The poll could read.

If a kit manufacturer offered you a choice in bringing out either a Pershing 1A or a Pershing 2 in the same scale, which version would you choose.



http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=9298

Do what you think is best. Many of us will be happy to get it.


Bill

[Ltvscout]

If a kit manufacturer offered you a choice in bringing out either a Pershing 1A or a Pershing 2 in the same scale, which version would you choose.

Everyone knows the 1A is the way to go. ;)

[ghrocketman]

I would definitely purchase either one, or both.

[carbons4]

Those are some small re-entry vehicle. Brian Reese and I used to come up with pretty elaborate designs, most were NOT NAR approved and the ones that would have been would have cost over 50 bucks in 1984 dollars. With the cost of cnc tooling, advanced 3d software, and edm's to make molds, I wish they would do some new and advanced designs.

[luke strawwalker]

I believe someone should create a Poll to see what the results would be on the choice between a Pershing 1A versus a Pershing 2.

The poll could read.

If a kit manufacturer offered you a choice in bringing out either a Pershing 1A or a Pershing 2 in the same scale, which version would you choose.


Of course the out come of this poll won't reflect which version I would do for Estes if in fact one is done at all since:

A: As the head of Estes R&D I have a pretty big influence on which model would be chosen.

B: I have a bunch of scale data on the Pershing 1A including the fact I can visit a real one any time I want at our local air museum to get as much new scale data as needed. Plus I've never personally seen a Pershing 2, nor do I have good scale data on one.

John Boren
Estes R & D

There's one down at White Sands Missile Range in their rocket park, on the launcher... :) That ain't too terribly far from you guys...

I think the main difference is the fin shape, upper stage fins, and tapered section above the transition...

There's another one that I wish Peter Alway would come out with... good data for Titan I and Pershing II...

Saw some NEAT stuff at Dayton USAF Museum that would make good rockets, from PAVE-TAC to some of the nukes...

One of these days I'm gonna experiment with fiberglassing and make me a glassed floral foam core Mark IV atomic bomb...

Later! OL JR :)

[tbzep]

One of these days I'm gonna experiment with fiberglassing and make me a glassed floral foam core Mark IV atomic bomb...
I don't really like using the green floral foam. It sheds pretty easily, sometimes breaking apart at glue seams when you are shaping it. Pink foam is a little more user friendly from what I've seen, but I haven't used it myself. You have to deal with hard glue seams in that soft material with both types. I have rolled up posterboard to make a mold and poured in two part epoxy type foam. No cutting and no gluing to get the size and shape of your starting piece. It worked pretty good on the lathe too, especially without having to deal with glue seams. Of course, I'm referring to bigger HPR cones. Foam/glass cones aren't worth the hassle on small stuff to me.

[Peter Olivola]

Pink foam would be an excellent choice for such a project. It can be built up using Elmer's in a very thin coat and will cut with a hot knife or the foam cutting tools found at your LHS. There are some very complex shapes formed this way for model RR scenery.

I don't really like using the green floral foam. It sheds pretty easily, sometimes breaking apart at glue seams when you are shaping it. Pink foam is a little more user friendly from what I've seen, but I haven't used it myself. You have to deal with hard glue seams in that soft material with both types. I have rolled up posterboard to make a mold and poured in two part epoxy type foam. No cutting and no gluing to get the size and shape of your starting piece. It worked pretty good on the lathe too, especially without having to deal with glue seams. Of course, I'm referring to bigger HPR cones. Foam/glass cones aren't worth the hassle on small stuff to me.

[Raygun]

I'M GETTING THERE!!! :mad:
I have another John Brohm model shot if you'll hold your pants on. :rolleyes:

Thank you for holding.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234301.jpg :cool:


I swear I saw it 4 months ago on the Estes website on a a kit design i just don't remember the name of the kit to search for it again. does anyone know ? John?

[Raygun]

I'M GETTING THERE!!! :mad:
I have another John Brohm model shot if you'll hold your pants on. :rolleyes:

Thank you for holding.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l529/rmortis/P7234301.jpg :cool:


I swear I saw it (odyssey cone) 4 months ago on the Estes website on a a kit design i just don't remember the name of the kit to search for it again. does anyone know ? John, was that my imagination?

[blackshire]

I swear I saw it (odyssey cone) 4 months ago on the Estes website on a a kit design i just don't remember the name of the kit to search for it again. does anyone know ? John, was that my imagination?To anyone not familiar with model rocketry, that photo could just as well be a frame from a pornographic film in which the main male characters are lisping. :-)

Seriously though, I just checked my 2011 Estes catalog and found no rocket with that nose cone, just the associated Photon Disruptor (which was originally released when the Odyssey kit was).

[ghrocketman]

I'd like to see Estes kit a maxi-brute 4" version of the Genie nuclear air-to-air interceptor rocket.

[turbofireball]

The future Estes kit with the Odyssey nose cone is called Dark Energy. It was shown at iHobbyExpo last year.

[JumpJet]

John, was that my imagination?

This cone is being used on a new design called "Dark Energy".

I was displayed last year at the iHobby Show. Photo Attached


John Boren

[ghrocketman]

Looks like that new kit uses the Interceptor tailcone also.
Interesting design.
Is it 18 or 24mm powered ?

[JumpJet]

Actually it's a New but similar in appearance tail cone that is shared with the Xarconian Cruiser. This model uses 18mm motors.


John Boren

[JumpJet]

Here are some pictures of the new Estes Tercel boost Glider. The item holding the lauch control wire is included in each kit. It prevents the clips from ripping off the stab when they fall.

John Boren

[Eagle3]

Very nice John. Thanks for posting.

[ghrocketman]

Interesting !
Is the Tercel 18mm or 13mm ?
That one could make an interesting 24mm micro-R/C upscale !

[Jerry Irvine]

Here are some pictures of the new Estes Tercel boost Glider. The item holding the lauch control wire is included in each kit. It prevents the clips from ripping off the stab when they fall.

John BorenThat's great. The stab seems small but it must work okay. How did you arrive at the pop pod angle relative to the fuselage/wing?

It is wonderful to see the innovation coming out of Estes R&D and I "blame" Hobbico for providing a small but necessary amount of capital investment.

Did you consider putting a disc near the end of the standoff dowel as a seat for the ignition wire loop? As much as it upsets me some people don't like masking tape and even resort to expensive, heavy, complicated devices to shun it.

Jerry

[Ltvscout]

Here are some pictures of the new Estes Tercel boost Glider. The item holding the lauch control wire is included in each kit. It prevents the clips from ripping off the stab when they fall.
Cool! Is there going to be a problem calling it a Tercel since Toyota used that name for one of their cars?

[Shreadvector]

Cool! Is there going to be a problem calling it a Tercel since Toyota used that name for one of their cars?

It is not an automobile.

Have you reviewed Estes kit names form the last 20 or 30 years and compared to automobile and motorcycle names and nicknames? That should be a seperate thread, so I will not start it here.

[ghrocketman]

Thankfully it looks nothing like that POS so-called car from toyota.

[JumpJet]

The model uses 13mm motors with the A10 working the best. Since they have to use tape to support both the launch lug above the pad and to connect the wood stand off to the launch rod they should have tape to help secure the wire to the dowel. You can of course just pull the wire loop tighter around the dowel so it stays in place. I have already up scale it to a C-RC RG model but it bit the dust when my elevator servo died.


John Boren

[Ltvscout]

It is not an automobile.
Names can get copyrighted.

[carbons4]

Lawyers copyright names, engineers over think everything that COULD go wrong. Astronauts strap themselves to millions of pounds of explosives and get the job done.

[Der Red Max]

Names can get copyrighted.Under US law, you can't copyright a title/name.
You can trademark it, though.

[Der Red Max]

Astronauts strap themselves to millions of pounds of explosives and get the job done.Yes, because "engineers over think everything that COULD go wrong"

[Shreadvector]

Under US law, you can't copyright a title/name.
You can trademark it, though.

Correct.

I took a weekend seminar taught by a fellow MIT class of '80 graduate who went on to become an intellectual property lawyer. His firm's office in a major high rise in downtown LA was astounding. Whatever you've seen on TV or movies does not compare to what those fancy offices and glass conference rooms look like in person.

You can have movies with the exact same title, you can have books with the exact same title and you can have songs with the exact same title.

You cannot have similar products for sale with the same trade name. you can have way different products for sale with the same trade name. And you can have way different companies exist with the exact or similar names, but if they try to enter into similar business areas as a pre-existing company, then the lawyers get involved.

Like Apple. The Beatles (Apple Corps) had that name first. Apple computer was sued.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer



I suggest further discussion be taken to Ye Olde Barristers Forum.

And how many companies go by the name Quest?

[carbons4]

or ACME?

[luke strawwalker]

Pink foam would be an excellent choice for such a project. It can be built up using Elmer's in a very thin coat and will cut with a hot knife or the foam cutting tools found at your LHS. There are some very complex shapes formed this way for model RR scenery.


Thanks Peter, tbzep...

I read about the idea of forming your "core" from expanded foam and then glassing over it, and then dissolving the foam out of the finished part using acetone to eat up the foam...

Light but strong structure...

I've used pink foam to turn cones/transitions-- works pretty darn well... but I use epoxy to join it... evaporation-curing glues aren't particularly well suited to joining closed cell foam IMHO...

Later! OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

The model uses 13mm motors with the A10 working the best. Since they have to use tape to support both the launch lug above the pad and to connect the wood stand off to the launch rod they should have tape to help secure the wire to the dowel. You can of course just pull the wire loop tighter around the dowel so it stays in place. I have already up scale it to a C-RC RG model but it bit the dust when my elevator servo died.


John Boren

Ok here's a question I didn't ask...

Why call it "Tercel"?? Interesting choice...

Later! OL JR :)

[JumpJet]

Tercel is a type of Hawk


John Boren

[Shreadvector]

Tercel is a type of Hawk


John Boren

I would have said something about using Google. :p :D

[blackshire]

Ok here's a question I didn't ask...

Why call it "Tercel"?? Interesting choice...It certainly suggests an interesting pose for the "launcher" (the model's owner), which may appear in photographs in club newsletters: Him or her suspended ~3' off the ground, arms out, legs bent backwards and upwards, but with head bent backwards, looking skyward... Maybe clubs (or perhaps even Estes, the NAR and/or CAR) could hold contests for the best photographs of "Oh, oh, oh, oh--What a feeling--Toyota!" poses while flying Estes Tercel boost-gliders? (Come to think of it, "My Estes" or "John Boren" would be perfect three-syllable replacements for "Toyota" in that tagline.)

[Gus]

Tercel is a type of Hawk


John Boren
John,

It was a real pleasure to finally meet you. I would like folks to know that not only did you bring and fly all those cool new models, but Estes donated a TON of stuff to the Cannon Educational auction, including most of the models shown in this thread. I DID bid on your built NARAM 53 commemorative model. I didn't get it but I did manage to run the price up a little, much to the consternation of my FAI teammate who ended up winnning it, LOL. And next year I'm bringing along some extra cash to be sure I get one of those Estes Mystery boxes. Those were amazing.

The buzz on your new products was very positive. I was especially tickled that so many of the sophisticated contest fliers really liked the "Estes Doorjamb" (sorry, I don't know what the real name of it will be. Really useful stuff.

Thanks again for being there with all the cool new products and thanks to whoever OK'd all those great donations!

Steve

[JumpJet]

Steve, Thanks for your kind words.

I was wondering if those who won the mystery boxes, where happy with their contents.

The QCC Explorer with the NARAM color scheme was in fact my one and only prototype of this model. It was pretty beat up but a little primer, putty and paint covers up things pretty well. The Mega Mosquito was my first prototype as well. I have a second one in my office.

The door jam thing is going to be called the Ultimate Tube Marking Guide. I use it all the time now.

Since I didn’t want the hassle of shipping any thing back I asked Mike Fritz in marketing if it would be ok to leave it there and he said yes.

John Boren

[Gus]

Steve, Thanks for your kind words.

I was wondering if those who won the mystery boxes, where happy with their contents.

Tom kept them up on the podium until they were all auctioned so nobody would open one prematurely. As each winner went up to pick up their box I kept hearing them say, "whoa, this is really heavy." Big crowds gathered afterward to see what was in them. I think most who didn't get one felt like me, really bummed I hadn't bid more.




The door jam thing is going to be called the Ultimate Tube Marking Guide. I use it all the time now.


It's a ridiculously clever product. So simple that you wonder why no one thought of it before, and just really useful. Was it your idea?

[JumpJet]

It's a ridiculously clever product. So simple that you wonder why no one thought of it before, and just really useful. Was it your idea?

Yes, the Ultimate Door Jam, Tube Cutting Guides and Motor Adpaters are all my ideas.


John Boren

[BEC]

I saw the tube cutters and adapters at NARCON (and met John). Good stuff all around.

So no one here remembers the RC hand launch glider kitted by Bridi called a Tercel? That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the name of John's new glider.....

[luke strawwalker]

I would have said something about using Google. :p :D

Yeah... we know... :rolleyes: :p ;) :chuckle:


OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

Tercel is a type of Hawk


John Boren

Cool...

(Johnny Carson voice) "Did not know that... Did not know that... Weird, wild stuff" (toss pencil in the air, listen to Ed McMahon guffaw)... (/Johnny Carson voice off)...

Thanks for the info...

Was hoping it wasn't named after a crappy car...

Later! OL JR :)

[BoosterDude]

I saw the tube cutters and adapters at NARCON (and met John). Good stuff all around.

So no one here remembers the RC hand launch glider kitted by Bridi called a Tercel? That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the name of John's new glider.....

I built a few of the Bridi Tercels, and it was the first thing I thought of as well. Remember Bridi had the Flipper HLG as well. They were my first hand launch gliders.

[Jerry Irvine]

Lawyers copyright names, engineers over think everything that COULD go wrong. Astronauts strap themselves to millions of pounds of explosives and get the job done.They aren't explosives.

[jharding58]

They aren't explosives.

Technically, possibly not. yet when the elements combined are referred to as "have the explosive power of" and anecdotally comment that had the Saturn V fuel detonated on the pad "a good piece of central Florida would be flattened" leads one to believe that it still bears respecting.

[Doug Sams]

Technically, possibly not. yet when the elements combined are referred to as "have the explosive power of" and anecdotally comment that had the Saturn V fuel detonated on the pad "a good piece of central Florida would be flattened" leads one to believe that it still bears respecting.Yes, it bears respecting, no doubt. But the hobby has only recently finished (and won) a long battle over the BATFE(ces) where one of the key points was the difference between propellant and explosive. So I appreciate the need to avoid using that term :)

Doug

.

[RocketMikeH]

Steve, Thanks for your kind words.

I was wondering if those who won the mystery boxes, where happy with their contents.

The QCC Explorer with the NARAM color scheme was in fact my one and only prototype of this model. It was pretty beat up but a little primer, putty and paint covers up things pretty well. The Mega Mosquito was my first prototype as well. I have a second one in my office.

The door jam thing is going to be called the Ultimate Tube Marking Guide. I use it all the time now.

Since I didn’t want the hassle of shipping any thing back I asked Mike Fritz in marketing if it would be ok to leave it there and he said yes.

John Boren

The mystery boxes are very cool! Thanks to Estes for the NARAm support!!

Mike
PSC

[tbzep]

Technically, possibly not. yet when the elements combined are referred to as "have the explosive power of" and anecdotally comment that had the Saturn V fuel detonated on the pad "a good piece of central Florida would be flattened" leads one to believe that it still bears respecting.
People think vehicle gas tanks blow up too. If they did, I'd be dead. :rolleyes:

[kevinj]

Steve, Thanks for your kind words.
I was wondering if those who won the mystery boxes, where happy with their contents.
Absolutely. The amount and range of tubes, rings, fins, cones and extras (including a couple of complete kits and a set of the motor adapters) was well worth the bid price in my case.

I wonder if that big Nike cone is left over Centuri stuff (a very tight fit on some BT-60) or some new development?

kj

[Ltvscout]

Can someone that won a mystery box take a picture of its contents and post it here?

[kevinj]

I can work on that this evening.

kj

[carbons4]

They might not officially be explosives but you have liquids that are ignited and expand rapidly and with great force. Sounds like hazardous pay to me.

[JumpJet]

I can work on that this evening.


So KJ, Just wondering how your photo of the surprise box contents is coming along.


John Boren

[barone]

Did anybody get a picture of the up-scaled SI that was near the Estes easy-up on Sunday? I meant to but never got back over there

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Two, actually!

[DaveR]

Wow, that's sweet. :cool:
The SI is one of my all time favorites.

[kevinj]

So KJ, Just wondering how your photo of the surprise box contents is coming along.
John Boren

Still trying to get it done. Thanks for the reminder.
kj

[kevinj]

Here are the contents of my mystery box. Like I said, I think it's a lot of good value for the money.

kj

[Jerry Irvine]

So KJ, Just wondering how your photo of the surprise box contents is coming along.
John Boren
Somehow surprise box contents remain a near permanent mystery. It's like all the recipients took an oath or something. :) Yet another cult . . .

Jerry :)

Attachment 25785, the third pic on my view, has two interesting parts. One near the bottom is a cone/coupler combo that looks more like a 1340 than a Phoenix Bird mold. Not sure if Estes ever made a short tube stop to fit ST-13 (BT-56) or BT-55.

The second part near the center is a PNC-70 and a PTC 60-70 reducer, or is it 55-60? That would be nice to get a full box of those if they were 70.

Lots o black Patriot/Mean Machine nose cones.

[mrhemi1971]

Estes should put together mystery boxes and put them on the website. I'm so @#$%^&*() JEALOUS!!!!

[kevinj]

The second part near the center is a PNC-70 and a PTC 60-70 reducer. That would be nice to get a full box of those.

Naw, no PNC-70 in there. It's a PNC-60 with a 60-55 reducer.

[mrhemi1971]

Naw, no PNC-70 in there. It's a PNC-60 with a 60-55 reducer.


They used that same combo in the Transtar Carrier I just built! Classic from 1987...

[John Brohm]

...

Attachment 25785, the third pic on my view, has two interesting parts. One near the bottom is a cone/coupler combo that looks more like a 1340 than a Phoenix Bird mold. Not sure if Estes ever made a short tube stop to fit ST-13 (BT-56) or BT-55.

...

The set near the bottom appears to be a PNC-1090 plus tube coupler set.

[blackshire]

Selling "Mystery Boxes" is a great idea for two reasons:

[1] It clears out excess parts *without* the costs and complexities of designing, testing, packaging (including writing the instructions for), and marketing SPEV (Spare Parts Elimination Vehicle) model rocket kits, while opening up more parts storage space.

[2] It lowers the manufacturer's inventory tax; if parts don't sit on their shelves (or in their bins) year after year but are sold instead, the company doesn't have to pay inventory tax on the parts in subsequent years. Also:

Centuri offered "Mystery Boxes" from time to time. In addition, while I'm not 100% certain of this, I believe Semroc also offered "Mystery Boxes" back in the early 1970s.

[stefanj]

Now, if you NARAM attendees had a MEAN streak, you could raid your antique rocket box, and do a little photoshopping, and come up with a mystery box that would drive us hoi-polloi INSANE:

Phantom Electrolaunch

Estes Invader

1961 Scout in motor tube mailer

Bulk pack of B14-0.

BT40 and BT30 tubes and cones

Early plastic fin units.

MRN collection.

[blackshire]

Now, if you NARAM attendees had a MEAN streak, you could raid your antique rocket box, and do a little photoshopping, and come up with a mystery box that would drive us hoi-polloi INSANE:

Phantom Electrolaunch

Estes Invader

1961 Scout in motor tube mailer

Bulk pack of B14-0.

BT40 and BT30 tubes and cones

Early plastic fin units.

MRN collection.You forgot the extremely rare Astron Prominence rocket kit.

[stefanj]

You forgot the extremely rare Astron Prominence rocket kit.

Oh, of course, the one that used Estes's almost forgotten ThunderFlash line of black powder F motors. The Mystery Box would have to have a few of those, of course! :-)

(NOTE: Above is a JOKE. If this gets turned into a rumor despite this disclaimer you have only yourselves to blame. )

[blackshire]

Oh, of course, the one that used Estes's almost forgotten ThunderFlash line of black powder F motors. The Mystery Box would have to have a few of those, of course! :-)

(NOTE: Above is a JOKE. If this gets turned into a rumor despite this disclaimer you have only yourselves to blame. )The Astron Prominence was an actual design, and at least one example of it was built and flown (it even had its own early-type "K" Estes catalog number), but neither the design nor its catalog number -originated- at Estes...

[Jerry Irvine]

The Astron Prominence was an actual design, and at least one example of it was built and flown (it even had its own early-type "K" Estes catalog number), but neither the design nor its catalog number -originated- at Estes...So, it was, not prominent after all?

JJ

[blackshire]

So, it was, not prominent after all?Perhaps not, but its designer (Peter Alway, the most prolific creator of model rocket scale data packs) certainly is!

[jetlag]

Perhaps not, but its designer (Peter Alway, the most prolific creator of model rocket scale data packs) certainly is!

Well, what did it look like...? :o

Allen

[blackshire]

Well, what did it look like...? :o

AllenIt was a cluster powered model (four 18 mm motors) with four moderately-swept fins, a rather short sub-caliber clear plastic payload section, and an elliptical nose cone. I believe the main body used BT-60 (or perhaps BT-70) tubing. If memory serves, there is a picture of the Prominence in an issue of "T-Minus 5," his club's newsletter. His old (now-defunct) AOL page also had an illustration (and possibly also plans) for the Prominence.

[Jerry Irvine]

It was a cluster powered model (four 18 mm motors) with four moderately-swept fins, a rather short sub-caliber clear plastic payload section, and an elliptical nose cone. I believe the main body used BT-60 (or perhaps BT-70) tubing. If memory serves, there is a picture of the Prominence in an issue of "T-Minus 5," his club's newsletter. His old (now-defunct) AOL page also had an illustration (and possibly also plans) for the Prominence.3x18mm fit in BT-60 (Cobra), so 4x18mm would be BT-70, an underused size due to a lack of plastic nose cones.

Jerry

[Ltvscout]

Here are the contents of my mystery box. Like I said, I think it's a lot of good value for the money.
Cool. What were these boxes going for if I may ask?

[Shreadvector]

As seen on (fictional) TV.

:D ;)

[RocketGirl]

Cool. What were these boxes going for if I may ask?

I don't remember the exact prices, but I think they ranged from ~ $50 - $75. There were something like 8 boxes, and the prices went up as the auction went on.

Estes donated mystery boxes to last year's auction, too. I think the prices were similar.

[Der Red Max]

Here are the contents of my mystery box. Like I said, I think it's a lot of good value for the money.

kjWow, is that a Nike-Smoke NC?
I know Centuri made one but don't think Estes ever did.
Hopefully, it's of a future Estes kit.:D

[Royatl]

John Boren said in a previous message here on the forum that the boxes each contained an old Centuri Nike Smoke nose cone.

(or maybe he said that at the Manufacturers Forum at NARAM 53... I'm a little foggy about that :) )

[Ltvscout]

Wow, is that a Nike-Smoke NC?
I know Centuri made one but don't think Estes ever did.
Hopefully, it's of a future Estes kit.:D
If you recall, Damon bought Centuri around '83. The companies were one in the same then. That's why there were a number of Estes kits in the 80's that used old Centuri parts.

[tbzep]

If you recall, Damon bought Centuri around '83. The companies were one in the same then. That's why there were a number of Estes kits in the 80's that used old Centuri parts.
I think Damon bought Centuri in 1976. They bought Estes in 1969. It was the early 80's before we started seeing parts/kits crossing over, though.

[Ltvscout]

I think Damon bought Centuri in 1976. They bought Estes in 1969. It was the early 80's before we started seeing parts/kits crossing over, though.
Sorry, I got the dates mixed up. I was thinking of Centuri's last catalog.

[Royatl]

Actually Damon bought Centuri not all that long after buying Estes. By 1971 at the latest.

That fact, of course, was not well known for many years.

[tbzep]

Actually Damon bought Centuri not all that long after buying Estes. By 1971 at the latest.

That fact, of course, was not well known for many years.
It probably was, but I wouldn't place a bet on any particular date. I did a search and found articles with conflicting dates on both the Estes and Centuri purchases. Articles had Estes purchased in 1969, 1970, and 1971, with 69 being the most referenced year. Some articles said Centuri "merged" with Estes in 1976, not even mentioning Damon. Others said the purchase was earlier.

CenturiGuy made a post showing that even Lee didn't know for sure, but Betty probably nailed it down.
06-15-2007, 11:52 PM I revieed the 1971-72 issues of the old Model Rocketry magazine and I can find NO mention of DAMON acquiring Centuri; whereas, when Estes was acquired by DAMON, there was some information listed about it. I've read the Centuri interviews in LAUNCH and Lee just states 1971. Can anybody be a little more precise?From Mike Maurer (whom I've tried to contact, to no avail) at: http://www.model-rockets.com/estes.htm "Important Dates in Estes History: ... September 27, 1969 merged with Damon Engineering Inc. The logo changed and says, 'A Subsidiary of Damon.'" (Terry, can you confirm the date above?) While I was talking with Lee and Betty Piester in preparation for NARCON 2006, they said that they sold Centuri to Damon about 18 months after Vern Estes sold his company to Damon. Betty said they finalized the sale sometime in 1971. Jay Goemmer's [_Sport Rocketry_ Jan./Feb. 2003] article about Lee Piester says that he sold to Damon in 1972.Tom, That's the *one* mistake I made in that article. :o At first Lee said 1970, but we had some difficulty nailing down if he stayed on as President for 5 years or only 3. After talking with Lee and Betty at NARCON last year, they basically confirmed that it took *about* 8 months or so to settle things after Lee was first approached by an attorney representing Damon (while Lee was at the Johnson Space Center, IIRC). Hope this helps. Cheers,

[Der Red Max]

If you recall, Damon bought Centuri around '83. The companies were one in the same then. That's why there were a number of Estes kits in the 80's that used old Centuri parts.Yes but none that used the Nike-Smoke NC.
Was hoping this was for a new, as of yet unannounced, kit.
Oh well, at least Estes has become exciting to watch once again.

[mrhemi1971]

I still think the mystery box is a good idea! I'd buy at least a couple a year!

[Earl]

It probably was, but I wouldn't place a bet on any particular date. I did a search and found articles with conflicting dates on both the Estes and Centuri purchases. Articles had Estes purchased in 1969, 1970, and 1971, with 69 being the most referenced year. Some articles said Centuri "merged" with Estes in 1976, not even mentioning Damon. Others said the purchase was earlier.

CenturiGuy made a post showing that even Lee didn't know for sure, but Betty probably nailed it down.

Pretty sure that Lee has stated he was first approached to sell Centuri to Damon at the NARAM in Houston in 1970. I think the deal was finalized by early the next year and I believe there was a small mention about it at the annual hobby show in Feb. '71 (I think there was a small burb in Model Rocketry magazine to that effect in the issue that covered the hobby show that year).

The Estes/Damon purchase did happen in September, 1969.

As to why the former was no where near as publicized as the latter I'm not sure.


Earl

[tbzep]

Pretty sure that Lee has stated he was first approached to sell Centuri to Damon at the NARAM in Houston in 1970. I think the deal was finalized by early the next year and I believe there was a small mention about it at the annual hobby show in Feb. '71 (I think there was a small burb in Model Rocketry magazine to that effect in the issue that covered the hobby show that year).

The Estes/Damon purchase did happen in September, 1969.

As to why the former was no where near as publicized as the latter I'm not sure.


Earl
Yeah, I think Jay pretty much got the approach/finalization timeline ironed out, but it's a little funny that Lee didn't remember off the top of his head considering the sale probably netted him some considerable cash for the time.

[Earl]

I did some quick checking in some of my Model Rocketry magazine back issues to check my reference in my previous post about the Centuri/Damon announcement. Here's the reference for at least one mention of the Damon aquisition of Centuri.

Model Rocketry magazine, April/May 1971 issue, page 10 (article entitled "New Products at the 1971 HIAA Trade Show", second paragraph):

"The biggest news of the show, however, was the announcement of another meger in the model rocket field. Just before the show opened, the Damon Corporation completed the final details of their aquisition of Centuri Engeineering and Vashon Industries as well as the Centuri subsidary Enerjet. Damon already owns Estes Industries. Initial information indicates that all three companies will continue to operate indeependently of each other, with each reatining its own product line."

The article does not give a specific February date for the trade show, except that it was held in 'early February'.

So, it would appear from contemporary reports of the day that Damon 'finalized' their deal for Centuri in early February, 1971 (first week maybe?) having initiated their original offer apparently at NARAM in Houston the prior August, 1970.

Earl

[Royatl]

I did some quick checking in some of my Model Rocketry magazine back issues to check my reference in my previous post about the Centuri/Damon announcement. Here's the reference for at least one mention of the Damon aquisition of Centuri.

Model Rocketry magazine, April/May 1971 issue, page 10 (article entitled "New Products at the 1971 HIAA Trade Show", second paragraph):

Earl


What bothers me is that back then I read those magazines cover to cover, every day. And I completely missed that!!!

[Shreadvector]

The later references to the Estes and Centuri "merger" may be associated with whatever was done to make Estes 'owned by' Centuri. Centuri Corp owned Estes even though most average people had no idea. And, of course, Damon owned Centuri Corp.

[Bill]

John Boren said in a previous message here on the forum that the boxes each contained an old Centuri Nike Smoke nose cone.

(or maybe he said that at the Manufacturers Forum at NARAM 53... I'm a little foggy about that :) )


It was at the manufacturers forum Saturday night.


Bill

[barone]

Wow, that's sweet. :cool:
The SI is one of my all time favorites.
Knew you'd like that. I saw it the first day I was there but it was gone when I went back to get a picture. Glad Bill got one......

[Blastfromthepast]

Interesting - browsing through Estes' latest offerings and finding the Mega Mosquito.
Back in the late 70s the club I belonged to (Skywatchers/ROMAR) in Colorado Springs ran a contest with an unofficial 'fun' event called 'Kit Scale'. This consisted of taking an existing manufacturer's kit and making a larger scale version of it. The model had to be turned in for judging alongside the original size kit. My entry was a BT60 sized Estes Mosquito built of parts from a Big Bertha kit, and fitted with a D engine mount and parachute.
I called it the "Skeeter Eater"
It turned in a spectacular flight on a D12-7 !!