More Rough Diamonds

[SEL]

Like Phred, I also keep my eyes open for built-up kits. A few weeks ago I won a collection of old Centuri 'LT' tubes from around 1966. (The 'LT'series tubes were used for the Mini-Max line). In the ebay photo, behind the tubes, was a cone-less body tube with fins standing in the background, which I figured was just a scratch build. On closer inspection
I started to look a bit at said rocket, and realized it wasn't 'cone-less' at all. In fact, I started to get more than a little exited by what I thought I was looking at. Well, the package arrived yesterday and confirmed that what I had won along with the tubes was an Rocket Development Corporation 'Cardinal'. Now, it isn't in great shape, but it isn't in horrible shape either. It's missing a fin, and only one of the fins is really the correct shape. But that fin is enough to get a good template traced and the really interesting thing is the nose cone. It's a small, hardwood Apollo capsule shape with a 3" long dowel-like nose.
The odd thing is that a few years ago I won the same nose cone on ebay. That cone is in a platsic bag with a peper header labeling it as a Centuri nose cone. The thing about the nose cone that came with the rocket is the shoulder. At first I thought the builder glued a lead payload weight to it, but now I 'm not sure - it looks/feels more like plastic or epoxy, but it's pretty heavy. The cone in the package is solid wood.

The body tube is 12" parallel wound manilla, which dates this particular 'Cardinal' to 1965/66. (Included in the lot was the Centuri order form for the tubes dated Aug. 66.) RDC switched to spiral wound tubes in 1968. I'll post photo's after I've cleaned it up a bit.


I've attached a cleaned up version of the ebay pic., and the catalogue page fron 1966. If anyone's interested, I'll send the Specs and a template off to Scott. The cone will be a problem, unless Carl (or Sandman) is interested in cloning it.

Sean

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Amazing launch effects on the catalog photo. ;) :D
This looks like it would be a cool cloning project, especially the two-stage version. Is it on Carl's Semroc Classics list?

[SEL]

Amazing launch effects on the catalog photo. ;) :D
This looks like it would be a cool cloning project, especially the two-stage version. Is it on Carl's Semroc Classics list?

You know, I hadn't thought to look there, but it is, along with the other RDC kits.
I'll drop Carl a line and see if he wants to borrow the nose cone.
I agree with you on the two-stage version, but I'll have to wing it (ouch!) on a fin template
for the booster.

Sean

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

You know, I hadn't thought to look there, but it is, along with the other RDC kits.
I'll drop Carl a line and see if he wants to borrow the nose cone.
I agree with you on the two-stage version, but I'll have to wing it (ouch!) on a fin template
for the booster.

Sean

It looks like you should be able to get fairly close just based on the catalog picture. It's just a continuation of the sustainer, and you'll know the size of the booster tube by the engines they recommend for it.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Looks like you should also be able to clone this one:
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/rdc66/66rdc4.html
Personally, I'd like to build a Sampson. :cool:

[Ltvscout]

Like Phred, I also keep my eyes open for built-up kits. A few weeks ago I won a collection of old Centuri 'LT' tubes from around 1966. (The 'LT'series tubes were used for the Mini-Max line). In the ebay photo, behind the tubes, was a cone-less body tube with fins standing in the background, which I figured was just a scratch build. On closer inspection
I started to look a bit at said rocket, and realized it wasn't 'cone-less' at all. In fact, I started to get more than a little exited by what I thought I was looking at. Well, the package arrived yesterday and confirmed that what I had won along with the tubes was an Rocket Development Corporation 'Cardinal'.
VERY cool find, Sean! I've kept myself away from eBay for the past few months. Too much money was being dropped there. ;) I really have to start unloading a lot of this stuff I have in the basement eventually. Anyhow, as you have time, we'd appreciate getting specs for the Cardinal sent over here.

[Chas Russell]

Sean,

I have the RDC catalog that I had loaned to Sven to scan for his site. I can make some enlargements of the Cardinal kit page if that would assist you. Please let me know.

Chas

[SEL]

Sean,

I have the RDC catalog that I had loaned to Sven to scan for his site. I can make some enlargements of the Cardinal kit page if that would assist you. Please let me know.

Chas

Thanks for the offer, Chas. I have all of the RDC catalogues from Sven's site. They should be good enough.
My only concern is that the cat picture doesn't show the fin at a 90 degree angle. It should be close enough, though.
Below is a photo of the Cardinal and the bagged cone. The Estes A.8-3 came with the package as well. The Cardinal doesn't show any signs of ever having been flown, which is a good thing: Instead of a streamer, the rocket had a 16" Centuri parachute stuffed into it.

[SEL]

Looks like you should also be able to clone this one:
http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/rdc66/66rdc4.html
Personally, I'd like to build a Sampson. :cool:

I was looking at that too, but the Moon-Glo has a shorter nose cone that isn't listed in the catalogue. Not sure what that was about.
The Sampson, Starflite and Honybee are on my list, too. A very long list at this point :o

Sean

[SEL]

VERY cool find, Sean! I've kept myself away from eBay for the past few months. Too much money was being dropped there. ;) I really have to start unloading a lot of this stuff I have in the basement eventually. Anyhow, as you have time, we'd appreciate getting specs for the Cardinal sent over here.

Yeah, I've been tracking things but this was the first item I've bid on in a while.
But it was my birthday 'n all :D

I'll take measurments and a tracing tonight and send them off to you.

Sean

[Ltvscout]

Yeah, I've been tracking things but this was the first item I've bid on in a while.
But it was my birthday 'n all :D

I'll take measurments and a tracing tonight and send them off to you.
Danke. I wonder if Carl is interested in borrowing your cone for cloning purposes?

[snaquin]

Yeah, I've been tracking things but this was the first item I've bid on in a while.
But it was my birthday 'n all :D

I'll take measurments and a tracing tonight and send them off to you.

Sean

Very rare find indeed! I'll bet there's not many of those left in circulation, the rocket or the cone.

Nothing like getting rocketry stuff for your birthday :D

[SEL]

Danke. I wonder if Carl is interested in borrowing your cone for cloning purposes?

I sent him an email making the offer. Seems like he's got a lot on his plate, though.
There'll be time enough for cloning the cone after NARAM.

Sean

[SEL]

Very rare find indeed! I'll bet there's not many of those left in circulation, the rocket or the cone.

Nothing like getting rocketry stuff for your birthday :D

I don't remember ever seeing any RDC kits, parts or built-ups on ebay other than the bagged cone. Mac Yokum had originally listed it as a piston. I told him it was a nose cone, but at the time I couldn't remember which company made it or where I had seen it.
I think I won it for 5 bucks.

Sean

[Carl@Semroc]

I sent him an email making the offer. Seems like he's got a lot on his plate, though.
There'll be time enough for cloning the cone after NARAM.

SeanYou got that right!
I have made one like the Moon-Glo. It might work with balsa. The one you have for the Cardinal would probably break too easily. There is probably a reason it was hardwood. One day I would like to ask Irv what he was thinking with those nose cones!

One of our customers in Seymore did an interview with Irv several months ago and sent us some very detailed photos of Irv's old collection along with several views of the Feather and its instruction sheet. I never saw one of those except in the catalog, but was always intrigued by the design.

[Chas Russell]

I seem to recall that the Cardinal and its booster were a four-finned design. The model in the pictures only has three. Could it be a clone built with the nose cone like the one in the package?
Gee, our own form of archeology!

Chas

[Ltvscout]

You got that right!
I have made one like the Moon-Glo. It might work with balsa. The one you have for the Cardinal would probably break too easily. There is probably a reason it was hardwood. One day I would like to ask Irv what he was thinking with those nose cones!
Can you do hardwood with your cone making machine? Or, how about using a harder grade of balsa?

One of our customers in Seymore did an interview with Irv several months ago and sent us some very detailed photos of Irv's old collection along with several views of the Feather and its instruction sheet. I never saw one of those except in the catalog, but was always intrigued by the design.
Do you know if that interview/photos will appear in a magazine any time soon? Maybe ask him to contact Mark at Launch magazine. I'm sure Mark would buy the story!

[SEL]

I seem to recall that the Cardinal and its booster were a four-finned design. The model in the pictures only has three. Could it be a clone built with the nose cone like the one in the package?
Gee, our own form of archeology!

Chas

The Cardinal is a four-finned rocket - mine is missing 1 fin that broke off at the root.

Sean

[SEL]

Can you do hardwood with your cone making machine? Or, how about using a harder grade of balsa?


Do you know if that interview/photos will appear in a magazine any time soon? Maybe ask him to contact Mark at Launch magazine. I'm sure Mark would buy the story!

Larry Rice did the history article on RDC for The Collectors Journal based in part on conversations with Irv. He may be able to add some background.

Sean

[Phred]

VERY nice!

Any chance you could create a sheet with tube dimensions and fin template for us 'DIY' clone types? I would turn this cone myself ... or ask Gordon (Sandman) to turm me one.

Phred

[Chas Russell]

The Cardinal is a four-finned rocket - mine is missing 1 fin that broke off at the root.

Sean

Thanks, Sean.

The one picture showed an obviously broken-off fin and I took it as being the "third" fin. Guess I needed as aft-end shot - and Bill you do NOT need to add commentary! Go spank the silverback.

I came close to ordering from RDC, but then Irv went to work for Centuri. They only released his Ignit-rite system as the Sure-shot. Irv Wait was also famous for his Enerjet 8 E motor. Like the Centuri Mini-Max line, shipping cost as much if not more than the motor(s). At NARCON this past March, I gave Lee Piester two prints made from slides I took at NARAM-12 in Houston in 1970. Both of them posing next to a Centuri Saturn V kit powered by a composite E24. The second print was the Saturn V a few feet above the pad on a smokeless composite motor.

feeling old...

Chas

[SEL]

The Cardinal is a four-finned rocket - mine is missing 1 fin that broke off at the root.

Sean

Thanks, Sean.

The one picture showed an obviously broken-off fin and I took it as being the "third" fin. Guess I needed as aft-end shot - and Bill you do NOT need to add commentary! Go spank the silverback.


Chas,

"Aft" and thou shalt receive.... Hmm, maybe I *should* have left that to Bill.

Sean

[Ltvscout]

Chas,

"Aft" and thou shalt receive.... Hmm, maybe I *should* have left that to Bill.
Ah, I see the problem. Someone crazy-glued a hand to the side of the rocket! :D

[SEL]

Ah, I see the problem. Someone crazy-glued a hand to the side of the rocket! :D

Ha! I knew there was somthing amiss, just couldn't quite put my finger on it. I'll saw that sucker off and post another pic.

Sean

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

The Cardinal is a four-finned rocket - mine is missing 1 fin that broke off at the root.

Sean

Thanks, Sean.

The one picture showed an obviously broken-off fin and I took it as being the "third" fin. Guess I needed as aft-end shot - and Bill you do NOT need to add commentary! Go spank the silverback.



Shake that trunk o' junk, baby. :eek:
I had the same thing happen with an Estes EAC Viper that I got from Ebay. Flew okay, but looks terrible.