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-   -   Vote for Your Favorite Bill Simon Design! (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=16827)

pterodactyl 09-14-2017 08:34 AM

Vote for Your Favorite Bill Simon Design!
 
Bill Simon will be at The Museum of Flight on September 23rd in Seattle as we salute the venerable Astron Alpha. During his career at Estes Bill designed at least 18 of the early K-kit era products including the Alpha.

Vote for your favorite design and we will try to show some of the examples contained in the G. Harry Stine Collection in Seattle.

In case you need to tickle some dormant memory neurons, here's Bill's page at Vintage Estes Rockets (Eric Higgins amazing resource for rocket hounds).

http://vintageestesrockets.com/k-ki.../bill-simon.htm

tbzep 09-14-2017 08:50 AM

There are a handful that stand out for me: K-12X, K-37, K-40, K-45, and K-59. It's really a tie with these for various reasons. If I had to step out and pick one, I guess it would be the Scrambler for it's combination of payload, cluster, and humor.

Now that I have read the post that goes along with the poll, I'd want to display the Farside-X for the general public to see more than my other choices, even though I chose the Scrambler as my favorite.

Doug Sams 09-14-2017 11:00 AM

Re: K-40 Midget
 
It's good to see the K-40 Midget is getting some love :)

Doug

.

Joe Wooten 09-14-2017 05:07 PM

I voted for the Avenger. I always liked the look of it.

I am doing another Space Ex MB for our scout troop this month, and as always I had them all buy an Alpha. I hope these boys have better fine finger motor skills than the last bunch 2 years ago.

jetlag 09-14-2017 08:26 PM

I voted for the Sky Hook, but the Avenger almost won out. I was given a box of rockets by a friend when his family was moving. I was 6 (50 years ago). In that box were a few catalogues, a launch set, wires, tons of engines, a Sprite, and a Sky Hook. I launched those as much as allowance would allow. I became 'hooked.'
Ever since, I have had a soft spot for these, especially the Sky Hook
I should get the SLS version...

The Avenger was my first stager. At age around 9 or 10, I was a decent builder (I thought :p ), but I remember having issues getting the fins to match up!
Fun memories.

Allen

Ltvscout 09-15-2017 06:57 PM

This is a public poll. That means you can see what kit your fellow YORF members voted for. Just click on the number of votes for one of the entries to see who voted for what. I personally went for the Farside-X. Just a cool looking 3-stager, IMHO. Second place was a tie between the SPEV and Scrambler.

Scott6060842 09-15-2017 08:21 PM

I voted for the Alpha. Cobra 2, Drifter 3.

stefanj 09-16-2017 09:15 AM

Ooooh, Farside-X is nosing ahead.

I rank the Avenger higher. A more elegant and refined design.

I'm actually flying a Farside-X today; C6-0/C6-0/C6-7. A definite classic, but hard to prep, and kind of maniacally over-designed (huge fins, spin fins).

AstronMike 09-16-2017 06:27 PM

Astron Avenger
 
Voted for this one, as I liked being able to use C motors in both stages and routinely get them back.

Also, it looked good with the checkerboard-type roll pattern decals I found somewhere...

Finally treed the sustainer after many flights back in '90. Been considering making an upscale of this, and somehow make the booster glide as well.

Also, around that time, I made a scratch built stager to replace the departed Avenger. Sort of a 4 finned Comanche deal, with BT55s. Booster of this DID glide, and rather nicely, on D12-0! Lost the sustainer, however, after only two flights, and wound up losing the gliding booster too. Guess I'd better stick to larger gliders then!

neil_w 09-16-2017 07:31 PM

I voted for the Avenger too. I really like those old timey two-stagers where the booster and sustainer fins fit together. The Avenger is a particularly graceful example.

Jerry Irvine 09-16-2017 11:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pterodactyl
Bill Simon will be at The Museum of Flight on September 23rd in Seattle as we salute the venerable Astron Alpha. During his career at Estes Bill designed at least 18 of the early K-kit era products including the Alpha.
He will see a quite big one. I hope he signs it.

stefanj 09-17-2017 11:09 AM

Farside-X flew yesterday. CCC = WAY zoomie. I lost sight of the top stage shortly after it zipped away.

Got a lot of "WOW" out of that flight.

I got everything back, thanks to an unknown person who found the sustainer way out at he far end of the field. It was really beat up. I'm thinking of making a new main body. I'll skip the spin-fins and make it a couple of inches longer, so I can pack really long surveyor's tape streamer in addition to (or even instead of) a parachute.

* * *
I have an Avenger clone. I think it is intact. I'd like to start the paperwork to use discontinued motors, and fly it on a B14-0 / B4-6 combo.

The Farside on a B14-0 / B6-0 / A8-5 would be interesting; fast boost, good altitude but not insane!

Doug Sams 09-17-2017 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
Farside-X flew yesterday. CCC = WAY zoomie. I lost sight of the top stage shortly after it zipped away.

<snip>

I'm thinking of making a new main body. I'll skip the spin-fins and make it a couple of inches longer, so I can pack really long surveyor's tape streamer in addition to (or even instead of) a parachute.
FWIW, on mine, I joined the payload section to the airframe to convert it to noseblow. That makes a lot more room for recovery.

Plus, the long payload section imparts a lot of moment at the transition which I fear over time will make it a loose fit (which I don't want to deal with :) )

Doug

.

Jerry Irvine 09-17-2017 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
I'd like to start the paperwork to use discontinued motors
What is that paperwork?

LeeR 09-17-2017 09:58 PM

Flew my Astron Cobra last month for its maiden flight, on B6-4 motors. Beautiful flight. Meant to fly it you yesterday at Chili Blaster in Pueblo on C6-5s, but just ran out of time. I am working on an upscale Cobra using BT-80 body, but it will have four 24 mm motors so fins can go thru wall to joints of the motor tubes. Always loved the Farside-X and never had one. I built an Apogee II as a kid instead -- it was like a whole dollar cheaper (!), and one less engine meant I might actually ha able to afford motors to fly it. One of thes days I'll build a Farside-X. I am detailing my first ever Sky Hook now. It was hard to pick my absolute favorite but I probably dreamed about the Farside-X more than any kit as a kid as I browsed the old catalogs.

Jerry Irvine 09-17-2017 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
Flew my Astron Cobra last month for its maiden flight, on B6-4 motors. Beautiful flight. Meant to fly it you yesterday at Chili Blaster in Pueblo on C6-5s, but just ran out of time. I am working on an upscale Cobra using BT-80 body, but it will have four 24 mm motors so fins can go thru wall to joints of the motor tubes. Always loved the Farside-X and never had one. I built an Apogee II as a kid instead -- it was like a whole dollar cheaper (!), and one less engine meant I might actually ha able to afford motors to fly it. One of thes days I'll build a Farside-X. I am detailing my first ever Sky Hook now. It was hard to pick my absolute favorite but I probably dreamed about the Farside-X more than any kit as a kid as I browsed the old catalogs.

You launch in Pueblo? You rock.

BEC 09-17-2017 11:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
Always loved the Farside-X and never had one. I built an Apogee II as a kid instead -- it was like a whole dollar cheaper (!), and one less engine meant I might actually ha able to afford motors to fly it. One of thes days I'll build a Farside-X. I am detailing my first ever Sky Hook now. It was hard to pick my absolute favorite but I probably dreamed about the Farside-X more than any kit as a kid as I browsed the old catalogs.


Semroc recently released a reproduction Farside-X, though of course if you have the fin patterns, it's pretty easy to clone.

I had one as a kid - it mostly flew on low impulse motors. I built a Farside for a classic model competition a few years ago. I've never had the nerve to go C-C-C on it. Typically B-B-A is what I've done.

BEC 09-18-2017 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
What is that paperwork?


http://www.nar.org/wp-content/uploa...ing-Program.pdf


Stefan,

The way I read this you won't be able to use B14-0 and B4-6 on the same flight. Only one decertifed motor at a time in a multistage.



Jerry,

I'm planning to visit Bill Simon tomorrow to do a little prep for this coming weekend's event. I'll try to remember to mention that you would like him to autograph the big Alpha. I know I have a normal sized one, a clone of the first version, that I want him to sign as well.

Jerry Irvine 09-18-2017 08:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
I'm planning to visit Bill Simon tomorrow to do a little prep for this coming weekend's event. I'll try to remember to mention that you would like him to autograph the big Alpha.
Snap a photo too.

chrism 09-18-2017 12:10 PM

My favorite is not listed but it is the Antares as it was my first rocket!

LeeR 09-18-2017 08:53 PM

Jerry,
I live in Fort Collins (190 miles one way to Pueblo) but thoroughly enjoy flying with John Boren and the other great people of SCORE, so the drive isn't that bad. Our site in Northern Colorado has been shut down most of this year due to fire bans. The Denver group has a beautiful site in Bear Creek Lake State Park, but it's small, and flights are limited to 1500 grams weight and 125 grams propellant.

My wife joins me (she never has gone to launches, other than when we launched with our kids many years ago). I got to know John at NSL and he told me I'd enjoy flying with them. He was right.

I'm looking forward to going to NARAM in Pueblo next year. I hope a lot of the people here on YORF can attend. I've met a few over the years and at NSL.

By the way, the site is easy to find. Google Maps knows the location as "Hudson Ranch Rocket Launch Site". :)

LeeR 09-18-2017 09:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
Semroc recently released a reproduction Farside-X, though of course if you have the fin patterns, it's pretty easy to clone.

I had one as a kid - it mostly flew on low impulse motors. I built a Farside for a classic model competition a few years ago. I've never had the nerve to go C-C-C on it. Typically B-B-A is what I've done.


I think I'd likely just order the kit. I'm getting lazy when it comes to cutting out fins. Of course, Semroc kit fins are usually available separately. But with all the tubes and rings, might as well just buy the kit. Oh, yeah, need the decals too! Yep, kit it is.

Jerry Irvine 09-19-2017 08:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
Jerry,
I live in Fort Collins (190 miles one way to Pueblo) but thoroughly enjoy flying with John Boren and the other great people of SCORE, so the drive isn't that bad. Our site in Northern Colorado has been shut down most of this year due to fire bans. The Denver group has a beautiful site in Bear Creek Lake State Park, but it's small, and flights are limited to 1500 grams weight and 125 grams propellant.

My wife joins me (she never has gone to launches, other than when we launched with our kids many years ago). I got to know John at NSL and he told me I'd enjoy flying with them. He was right.

I'm looking forward to going to NARAM in Pueblo next year. I hope a lot of the people here on YORF can attend. I've met a few over the years and at NSL.

By the way, the site is easy to find. Google Maps knows the location as "Hudson Ranch Rocket Launch Site". :)
After my SO retires don't be surprised if we show up sometime. I like the area.

ghrocketman 10-14-2017 05:39 PM

I just don't understand ANY votes for the Alpha.
That thing while classic has to be the most boring 3FNC rocket to ever exist.

BEC 10-14-2017 06:38 PM

Well, that pushed me over. I hadn't voted yet.

The Alpha may be boring to you, but it's been continuously available for almost 52 years now (having first appeared in MRN in late 1965). It was also the first kit to use the EH-2 motor hook for a quick change engine mount (the hook itself having first appeared in the Sprite) and the first to use the reliable tri-fold paper shock cord mount. Both of those features have also stood the test of time.

ghrocketman 10-14-2017 07:01 PM

It's still uber-boring.

LeeR 10-16-2017 07:02 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I had mentioned earlier that I had flown my Astron Cobra for its maiden voyage back in August, and that I had parts for an upscale. I’ve been working on it off and on for a couple weeks. Here is a picture of the completed motor mount, and the fins I cut out last week. I took this picture of parts prior to slotting the body tube. The last picture is a dry fit of the components. My Astron Cobra is shown for comparison. I now have the assembly work done, and I’m in the process of sealing the fins. They are basswood. Immensely fun cutting them by hand, especially with fin tabs.

I’m on a real Bill Simon rocket kick. I’ve got a Skyhook nearly done, just needs fins painted red, and the black striping added. I’ve also been contemplating an upscaled Drifter — it was one of my first rockets.

neil_w 10-16-2017 08:07 PM

Nice, I really like the Cobra.

Is it me, or is that a reeeeeally short shoulder on the back of the transition?

LeeR 10-16-2017 09:59 PM

It’s a reeeeeally short shoulder. Just like the old Estes balsa adapters! 😀

It fits extremely well, and since the payload section is short, I may leave it. On the old Estes balsa adapters, I’ve fixed in a couple of ways — a coupler section glued onto the shoulder, or my favorite, several dowels glued into holes drilled into the shoulder, with the edge of hole at the shoulder’s edge. Less friction. Requires drilling holes for dowels on a drill press unless you are really good holding a hand drill. On a shoulder that is BT-70 sized, I used four 3/8” dowels.

pterodactyl 10-16-2017 10:45 PM

Great work Lee! I bet all of us including Bill himself will enjoy seeing them.


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