Someone has already emailed him about the origins of the kit. Here is his reply from the eBay posting:

"I've received several questions like this. The kit came from a hobby store in Laurel, Maryland. It has been with me for somewhere around 40 years. This is the original package that the rocket was purchased in. I have never opened it. If it is repackaged parts, the store did ti 40 years ago. Sorry, but I don't know any more than that. Tom"

Looks funny, but I wasn't even here 40 years ago so who knows......hopefully one of our wonderful veterans (of the hobby) can figure it out.

I emailed the seller for more information. I also sent out a few more emails to try and find out if this is a rarity or a hoax.

I would say, off the top of my head, that, if this came from a hobby shop 40 years ago, then, they could have possibly repackaged it from parts/ Who knows???

I knew of a hobby shop that purchased parts in bulk and repacked them with their own headers, prices etc.

Anything is possible. Hopefully, my sources will come through with an answer.

FWIW my original "birdie" kit came with the DOM plan as the instructions when it was recieved as a free kit and was packaged similary.

Wow. That went for a nice chunk of change for a kit with uncertain origins, huh?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=200258003308

You gotta be kidding???????
Let's all kit up some parts and get a bag sealer and go into business, even legit kits aren't going for that much in this economy??????

RD,

I don't know ... here is a list of rockets that closed for WAY over what they are valued at yet NO ONE raised ANY concern:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Estes-Flying-Mo...id=p3286.c0.m14

I have 3-4 and would EASILY sell you an HJ for $125 free shipping!

http://cgi.ebay.com/REVELL-APOLLO-S...id=p3286.c0.m14

Piece of junk, very unscale and worth only $75 - $100 IMHO

http://cgi.ebay.com/Estes-Saturn-1B...id=p3286.c0.m14

I would rather buy the Semroc version and fix all the unscale issues with it or for the price that this closed at, might as well buy the Apogee Sat 1b

The above just closed within the last 10 days. There are plenty more examples if one wants to spend 30 min to an hour searching the ebay site.

Did you receive any word from the sources you e-mailed about the Double Trouble?

Bob

Sorry to say, my sources never replied back. Usually any free kits that Estes had offered through mail order purchases were stock kits using stock packaging. There could be exceptions to the rule though, but, for this one, I don't have a clue.

Also, over the years, Estes has made "special" kits/packagin for retailers as per their request.

Fergie,

I have some close-ups of the kit, and it is a KIT not a repackaged bag. As Jeffery pointed out, he received his Birdie kit in the same fashion as a free kit. I used to receive Centuri kits in the same fashion and yes I was one of those who mailed ordered the Stellar kits when Centuri was closing them out and would receive kits in stapled bags with nothing but parts and instructions.

If this is a kit, it is one of the best fakes I have EVER seen!

All the parts are old stock: checker board plastic chute in sealed plastic bag. Inspector Ticket with serial number. Thin 60's engine blocks. The paper instructions have reacted with the balsa on both sides and yellowed only in the area in contact (the instructions are folded around 2 sheets of balsa). The snap-svivel shows slight oxidation as well as the screw eye. The sealed end (bottom) shows an industrial size/type melt line. Its 1/8th of an inch thick with tiny ridges. Home seal-a-meal units have a thin 1/32 line where the platic is melted together. I know the industrial types as I used to own one when I ran a computer software business where I had to seal boxes and bags of cables.

The tubes are all machine cut and not done by hand. Header tag is plyable and heat sealed to the plastic. No glue, tape, staples or any abbrassions or lifting anywere where the paper tag makes contact to the plastic bag.

What now needs to be deternmined is what motivated this kits' existence? There is no price tag, or residue of a tag. This would make sense if it were a free kit. Estes and Centuri used to give promotional kits away if the the order was large enough. The header puts the kit somewhere around 1969. The instructions show a copyright date of 1965. This isn't a problem as I have skill level kits (1973-) that have "K" kit instructions in them along with the header cards.

Bill Simon or even Vern himself may remember these kits.

Jeffery received a Birdie in the same form back when they were given away. Now the Double Trouble. I have in my collection, Beta (pre-retail) kits where they were mailed out to builders for evaluation so that changes could be made to the kits prior to retail. I don't think this was a beta.

Another kit that was never offered in any catalogs that I know off was the K-53 Stinger. I have a couple and they also came packaged the same way.

So know we know of 3 kits packaged in this fashion:

K-53 Stinger <--- I confirm
Double Trouble <--- I confirm
TK-44 Birdie <--- Jeffrey Deem

I have a feeling there are others... just have to keep an eye out on ebay.

I have included some close-ups of the kit.

Bob

I believe the kit is a legitimate Estes product. I don't think it was a free kit offered as a bonus for an order of a given size, though. Estes had a good selection of such kits that they gave out over the years, always with some kind of 'Free Kit' designation. Early ones had the yellow oval sticker on the outside of the bag; later ones had 'Free Kit' printed on the front face of the instructions. This Double Trouble kit is very unusual. It may have been given out at a trade show or rocketry meet. Perhaps Estes tried a promotion to boost sales of their rocketry parts..............they were overstocked by the early seventies which led to publication in 1974 of the Parts Catalog. Whatever it is, I have a hunch that it is completely authentic.

Joe

Yes, Estes Ind. did "kit up" parts for some of the DOM models. It was Vern's idea to do so. I could have sworn that we offered them in the MRN, but after this many years, I'm fuzzy on the marketing details. I do know that we shipped of a bunch of them to the various NARAMs. Since I was back in Penrose minding the store while Vern, Bob Cannon and Norm Avery represented the company at the meets, I can only assume that we used them as free handouts.

Bill Simon