View Single Post
  #24  
Old 09-16-2011, 04:54 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 6,134
Default

That's pretty sweet looking, Mike...

In fact your "1-F" immediately sprang to mind when I started reading that thread... I was like "so THAT'S why he went with one F-1!"

It makes sense... doubling the first stage thrust means that to keep the gee loads the same, you have to carry a LOT of payload with you or deeply throttle the engines. F-1's didn't throttle (much if at all given they shut the center one down on Saturn V before stage burnout to keep the gees down when the S-IC was running on empty and getting "very light".) and you wouldn't want to launch a full "lunar stack" to LEO on every S-IF flight of course... It'd be a good payload lifter, no doubt, but for a crew ferry... I dunno... Guess you could put a big water tank in the SLA to keep the gees manageable... LOL Shutting one F-1 down in a small asymmetric cluster wouldn't work (technically it COULD, but it would be HIGHLY undesirable with only two engines) There's a certain beauty to the simplicity of the single F-1/single J-2S lifter anyway-- it's a "natural" solution (which the "stick" tried to emulate but ungainly and awkwardly with that SRB first stage and all the problems it brings).

Point taken about the Gemini on Titan III (MOL) but it sorta makes me wonder now just how realistic that was... I know they flew the boilerplate MOL and Gemini capsule retooled with the heat shield hatch, but what were the gees during SRM burn I wonder??

Quick question Mike-- on your 1-F, it's difficult to see the fins-- did you use "I-B" fins on yours or "something else"?? I know yours is a static model and not a flying one, but I'm curious as to your choice and rationale... A single F-1 eliminates the need for the fairings, which really frees one up on fin choices... I'm currently debating between using the 8 Saturn IB swept fins or modified Saturn V fins or even going back to Saturn I Block II fins, since this is a flight model and MUST have fins. The two engine version with the fairings presents quite a quandary in the fins dept. since the prototype "LRB pods" didn't have them, obviously, but a flying rocket needs them-- requiring either to go with "plug in" supplementary (clear or otherwise) fins or, when using it as a first stage, choosing some likely "candidate fins" to put on the stage. Clearly Saturn V fins would be the ones of choice on the fairings, but then that leaves *what* for the opposing fins-- "Saturn I Block II-ish" located directly opposite the fairings and centered between them (clean aerodynamically) or two or even three "Saturn IB-ish" fins located between the fairings on the main body tube between the fairings (complicated aerodynamics due to the tapered fairings). Just curious as to your thoughts on the subject...

The three-body "LRB pod" design is quite interesting... I've thought about something quite similar in relation to a story idea I've had about the aftermath of a nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis... Saturn V never happens, obviously, but 10 years later a new President decides to ultimately finish what we started, in a smaller, cheaper way, of course... F-1 existed (more or less) and they dust off the old plans and suddenly Saturn C-3 looks just about perfect, especially if it uses a new design principle that someone just invented-- the 3-body booster, which they're currently using to launch small space stations using three Titan II first stages strapped together topped by an enlarged second stage (6 LR-87's lifting a twin Centaur upper stage-- sort of a Titan III but using common cores instead of the SRM's.) Scaling it up to use three cores with 2 F-1's each, giving six F-1's thrusting at liftoff, with a lengthened S-IVB second stage with four J-2's, lifting either a standard S-IVB or an RL-10 powered S-IV stage (or both) would provide a substantial capability *on the cheap*. (I'm predicating that dusting off the plans and making Saturn V is deemed "too expensive" after the deep Depression that follows the nuclear war in 1962; the whole program is envisioned as not only an inspiration to the nation and announcement to the world that "we're back" but also a sort of latter day CCC program to help reinvigorate a stagnated and lackluster technical/aerospace economy and the economy in general with "spinoffs"...)

Anyway, thanks for the pics... You don't have a bigger one of your 1-F do you?? I just like the looks of that rocket!

Later! OL JR
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote