Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Weather-Cocked > FreeForAll
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-08-2019, 11:57 AM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 11,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Oh--from the video coverage (and the hosts' descriptions), it looked and sounded like they were doing the pyrotechnic and pneumatic safing operations from the small fast boats (as they called them). I wonder if--perhaps to save cost, time, and to simplify the operation--they've dispensed with floatation collars? I didn't see one, and neither did the SpaceX folks (nor the astronauts and NASA officials they interviewed, or ran comments from) mention one.

He may have safed a backup charge, assuming it has unfired redundant systems. I am at work so I had audio turned off and didn't hear commentary. He only climbed up and worked at the one spot, which is where the chutes and recovery cable were attached. I may have missed something as I was skipping all the non-footage commentary.

I have no idea if upcoming manned missions will use flotation collars. My thinking is that if they plan to do that with manned missions, they also would on this one. They definitely didn't use one. The Apollo version weighed a couple hundred pounds and was a handful to wrestle into position. The only thing I saw attached to Dragon was the strap wrapped around it that was used to attach the stabilizing lines.
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:13 PM
ghrocketman's Avatar
ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
President, MAYHEM AGITATORS, Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Nunya Bizznuss, Michigan
Posts: 13,443
Default

Aircraft Carrier recovery should be a requirement/mandate.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:30 PM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 11,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Aircraft Carrier recovery should be a requirement/mandate.


Based on the footage, we could recover the Dragon with the S.S. Minnow. They plan to drop it in much closer to the coastline on future missions and unless they have rough seas, the crew could stay inside and get towed in by just about anything with enough fuel for a three hour tour.


.
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-08-2019, 02:16 PM
Earl's Avatar
Earl Earl is offline
Apollo Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Based on the footage, we could recover the Dragon with the S.S. Minnow. They plan to drop it in much closer to the coastline on future missions and unless they have rough seas, the crew could stay inside and get towed in by just about anything with enough fuel for a three hour tour.


.


Just make sure Mary Ann and Ginger are part of the recovery crew.

Earl
__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-08-2019, 02:22 PM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 11,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Just make sure Mary Ann and Ginger are part of the recovery crew.

Earl

1st on the agenda, little buddy!
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:06 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
He may have safed a backup charge, assuming it has unfired redundant systems. I am at work so I had audio turned off and didn't hear commentary. He only climbed up and worked at the one spot, which is where the chutes and recovery cable were attached. I may have missed something as I was skipping all the non-footage commentary.

I have no idea if upcoming manned missions will use flotation collars. My thinking is that if they plan to do that with manned missions, they also would on this one. They definitely didn't use one. The Apollo version weighed a couple hundred pounds and was a handful to wrestle into position. The only thing I saw attached to Dragon was the strap wrapped around it that was used to attach the stabilizing lines.
They went around behind the capsule, too, very close (close enough that the fast boat crews could easily touch it). Part of that involved pulling that one parachute's canopy over and off the capsule, but they might might also have been opening waterproof panels or doors, and pulling out arming plugs--or replacing them with safing plugs, if there were any (I'm presuming that the hypergolic Superdraco propellants had all been burned through the engines and/or vented overboard before splashdown, because the fast boat crews weren't wearing SCAPE [Self-Contained Atmospheric Protective Ensemble] "acid suits," like the Aerobee and Titan II/III/IV fueling crews wore [and it would be too late to put them on after discovering such chemicals in the air, because the death or damage would already be done]). Also:

Even the Mercury and Gemini flotation collars weren't much eaiser to install than the Apollo ones (the astronauts often helped the divers put them on the capsules if they'd already gotten out in the water, as Scott Carpenter did). The future landings, going by what the SpaceX commentators said (this first landing was 240 nautical miles east of the Cape and return to Port Canaveral would take 30 hours, while futures ship returns will take only about 2 hours), will occur just 16 nautical miles offshore, and:

If the seas off Cape Canaveral were too rough, and they didn't want to delay the splashdown, there's no reason why they couldn't undershoot or overshoot the rough area, or even--if the Superdraco thrusters enable enough re-entry crossrange--land at least a few tens of miles left or right (north or south, for easterly orbits) of the rough seas area. If they did decide to land later, the changing ground track would enable landings offshore from Miami or other not-too-far-away coastal communities with dock-handling gear (cranes, barges, etc.) like that at Port Canaveral. As well:

The Dragon capsule is a roomy vehicle, even with all seven seats filled, so waiting a few hours for recovery wouldn't be an endurance contest (plus they would have full two-way communication gear, and could carry Iridium satellite telephones, satellite internet devices, etc.). If they really had to get back to land in a hurry (with an ill or injured crew member, say), there are plenty of U.S. Coast Guard assets. Even if none of their choppers could lift the capsule onto a cutter vessel, they could evacuate some or all of the crew, then close the hatch, and the SpaceX crew could recover the capsule later, homing in on its tracking beacons.
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-11-2019, 06:38 AM
ghrocketman's Avatar
ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
President, MAYHEM AGITATORS, Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Nunya Bizznuss, Michigan
Posts: 13,443
Default

Whether NEEDED or NOT, the Aircraft Carrier recovery should be a MANDATE if for no other reason than historical purposes.
No "K-mart-ish" cheap baloney.
Landing/Recovery should ALWAYS be a overly grandiose production.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-13-2019, 02:28 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Whether NEEDED or NOT, the Aircraft Carrier recovery should be a MANDATE if for no other reason than historical purposes.
No "K-mart-ish" cheap baloney.
Landing/Recovery should ALWAYS be a overly grandiose production.
If you're willing to pay the bills for that (perhaps through a private foundation that would fund such recoveries via grants to the U.S. Navy, using money donated by interested individuals), I have no objections.
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-13-2019, 07:33 AM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 11,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
If you're willing to pay the bills for that (perhaps through a private foundation that would fund such recoveries via grants to the U.S. Navy, using money donated by interested individuals), I have no objections.

In a round about way, we are already paying for everything coming from Musk. He got rich off govt subsidies with Tesla, which would lose money hand over fist otherwise. Space-X has flourished under NASA grants. At least we are getting something good for our tax dollars with Space-X.



.
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-13-2019, 07:51 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
In a round about way, we are already paying for everything coming from Musk. He got rich off govt subsidies with Tesla, which would lose money hand over fist otherwise. Space-X has flourished under NASA grants. At least we are getting something good for our tax dollars with Space-X.
Yes, he has learned well how to obtain government grants (even his lesser-known third company, Solar City, has--if I recall correctly--gotten federal and/or California state grants) and make use of government "anchor tenant" arrangements. SpaceX benefits from both grants and government anchor tenant agreements (via its military satellite launches as well as providing ISS cargo [and soon crew] two-way transportation for NASA). Also:

I'm glad to see them using cheaper hardware and methods, since we're paying for them (the already lowest-cost launch vehicle of its class, then added major component reusability, and a smaller, cheaper capsule recovery vessel). It's a good way to advance a new technology (U.S. airmail anchor tenancy in the early 20th century caused aviation and aeronautical navigation methods to be rapidly improved).
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:47 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024