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  #11  
Old 02-23-2017, 04:05 PM
jdbectec jdbectec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Wooten
I think I still have the kit instructions. Let me see if I was prescient enough to trace the fin pattern....


I hope you were. He got me so curious about it I had to squander my hard-earned money and my 40% off Hobby upon on the new version. I found a link to the Gary Fortin sites that showed seal kits but I don't know how much help that would be.
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2017, 05:12 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Originally Posted by K'Tesh
While the kit may have not been changed (with plastic nosecone), I'm sure that the instructions must have, if nothing else to change the kit number from K-55 to 1255.


The change from 'K-' to four digit 'XXXX' product codes was an inventory/accounting issue at Estes as the company became more intertwined with hobby distributors and computer tracking methods.

The same thing happened with parts. A 'BNC-20B' became '8005'.

The change did not necessarily mean a change in the product.
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2017, 07:19 PM
jdbectec jdbectec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
The change from 'K-' to four digit 'XXXX' product codes was an invecounting issue at Estes as the company became more intertwined with hobby distributors and computer tracking methods.

The same thing happened with parts. A 'BNC-20B' became '8005'.

The change did not necessarily mean a change in the product.



thank you for sharing that. I noticed that the BalsaNose cone was not available in the catalog but the plastic was. perhaps they were using up old stock or were repackaged
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2017, 07:27 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
The change from 'K-' to four digit 'XXXX' product codes was an inventory/accounting issue at Estes as the company became more intertwined with hobby distributors and computer tracking methods.

The same thing happened with parts. A 'BNC-20B' became '8005'.

The change did not necessarily mean a change in the product.


I'll give you an example of a rocket that changed. The Estes Omega (K-52P). Originally shipped with a balsa nosecone, then shipped with an injection molded PNC-60AH (in both black and white plastic), finally it shipped with the blow molded PNC-60AH.

The K-55 Goblin and the reissue have differences in the motor mount. The K-55 has a small notch that is cut out of the aft centering ring, and the engine hook is 1/4" from the top end of it. The new one has a notch cut completely out of the aft centering ring, and the engine hook is 3/8" from the top end of the motor tube. Then there's the whole engine hook design change that took place in the 90's.

Another possible change. Estes changed the appearance of its instructions during the time frame of the Goblin's run. Did that affect the Goblin too? I'll cite the look of the instructions for the venerable Cherokee D.

I'm also fairly sure that mine didn't have a balsa nosecone.
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2017, 08:02 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K'Tesh
I'll give you an example of a rocket that changed. The Estes Omega (K-52P). Originally shipped with a balsa nosecone, then shipped with an injection molded PNC-60AH (in both black and white plastic), finally it shipped with the blow molded PNC-60AH.

The K-55 Goblin and the reissue have differences in the motor mount. The K-55 has a small notch that is cut out of the aft centering ring, and the engine hook is 1/4" from the top end of it. The new one has a notch cut completely out of the aft centering ring, and the engine hook is 3/8" from the top end of the motor tube. Then there's the whole engine hook design change that took place in the 90's.

Another possible change. Estes changed the appearance of its instructions during the time frame of the Goblin's run. Did that affect the Goblin too? I'll cite the look of the instructions for the venerable Cherokee D.

I'm also fairly sure that mine didn't have a balsa nosecone.


The change from a 'K-' code to a four digit 'XXXX' product code did not reflect changes to a product. It was just coincidence.
All Estes AND Centuri kits changed to a four digit product code in the mid-1970s. This did not necessarily reflect any change to a product.
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2017, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
The change from a 'K-' code to a four digit 'XXXX' product code did not reflect changes to a product. It was just coincidence.
All Estes AND Centuri kits changed to a four digit product code in the mid-1970s. This did not necessarily reflect any change to a product.


I used to live in Missouri. You know "The Show Me State"?

You keep saying that the only difference is the change in the product code... I want to see it for myself. If nothing else for a record that documents the history of this kit.

http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/...torials/k55.htm

Besides... Isn't this Ye Olde Rockert Forum? Isn't this forum for preserving the past history of rocketry. The Goblin is a part of that history, it deserves to be recorded.
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Last edited by K'Tesh : 02-23-2017 at 09:55 PM.
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2017, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K'Tesh
I used to live in Missouri. You know "The Show Me State"?

You keep saying that the only difference is the change in the product code... I want to see it for myself. If nothing else for a record that documents the history of this kit.

http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/...torials/k55.htm


The early instructions are integrated with the face 'card' so it's likely they were at least reformatted for the blue facecard version, at the very least folded to fit in the bag. Other kits I looked at last night like the Streak and Alpha have old looking instructions in the skill level packaging but that older face piece is not part of the instructions.

The early Goblin instructions are scattered in an exploded diagram so it would be interesting to see if they were reformatted step by step.
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2017, 10:10 PM
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BEC BEC is offline
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Jim,

Bob is simply saying "correlation is not causation", not that the part number change was the only thing that changed on a particular kit when the part number changed.

I can't help on this one. I have an original Goblin (which took 30 years to get painted) and I have both the Estes recent reissue and variants from Semroc (NC) an Semroc (Ohio). But not an Estes one in the time frame you are seeking as I was in my early career at Boeing and with small children in the house and not even thinking of model rockets at that point in time....
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  #19  
Old 02-24-2017, 01:30 AM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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FWIW: My measurements of the modern reissued Goblin (7237) I have here in China shows that the fins have shrunk ever so slightly. The motor has moved back 1/8" and thanks to the finger tab, built stock, the rocket wouldn't be able to sit on its fins.
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #20  
Old 02-24-2017, 07:27 AM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K'Tesh
FWIW: My measurements of the modern reissued Goblin (7237) I have here in China shows that the fins have shrunk ever so slightly. The motor has moved back 1/8" and thanks to the finger tab, built stock, the rocket wouldn't be able to sit on its fins.

Cut that finger tab off, spin the hook upside down, and you have a classic motor hook. I've done that with every kit I've built that I finished (painted, decaled, displayed), but I have left the finger tabs on a few of the utility rockets I've built.
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