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  #41  
Old 02-07-2011, 01:30 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver
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Unfortunatly, Dubnica seems to be out of business since a while. The only one who makes engines in former Czechoslovakia is Jiri Taborsky I guess?



Matt, keep in mind that in Nuremberg the booth was mostly frequented by hobby store owners. Hobby shops in Germany (as well as in most other European areas) are very tradtional, selling airplanes, ships and cars. They do not care too much about rockets. In the US, hobby stores carry model rockets for decades so they know them.

But the other point is that even in the US, most sales I guess are, in the meantime, made by toy stores, Walmart and so on. Due to lots of restrictions (age and propellant limits) this was never a target market in Germany.

But anyway, the market grewed up in the past years. Weco, the German motor manufactuter, has now a good figure of engines they produce each year. I think most sales growth was made by online stores during the past years (it´s still hard to find local stores carrying rockets).

Estes has just announced on the Nuremberg Toy Fair that Revell will now start selling its products in Germany this summer. Revell is not just a well-known brand, it has also strong precence in the toy market.

Another point is that the European Union released new regulations for pyrotechnical devices going into effect 2013. This could be a change to liberate some strict regulations in some countries - on the other hand, it may even get worser if we do not take care about it.

Another news, btw, is that Klima, who imports Quest to Germany, will start producing own engines this year. I´m pretty sure they will even appear in the US sooner or later under the Quest label



Hello Leo
Thanks for the information

Revell is a division of Hobbico, as you know has owned Estes for over a year now.
And, WalMart no longer carries Estes products, for at least six months .

As you have noted, it seems the European market is more into planes than rockets.

We need you as a marketing agent to spread the word about model rockets. Your web site is a clear indication as to what can be done in the hobby and is well appreciated by your fellow rocketeers in the States.

RD
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  #42  
Old 02-07-2011, 01:56 PM
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Oliver Oliver is offline
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@Bill, I do not think that it will affect any given patents. My concerns are just that everything works smooth. There are so many factors (technichal, regulatory and financial issues) that may influence the production.

@RocketDoctor, I´m Oliver not Leo Yes, let´s hope that model rocketry will get better awareness in Europe in the future. I feel that, thanks to the Internet, more people are getting into the hobby than lets say 20 years ago. Additional, there was some good media coverage in the past years. What´s still missing is a broader coverage in local stores and less restrictions.

Regarding prices, it´s true that Estes engine prices are way too high. I hope that Revell find ways to reduce shipping and handling charges in order to cut retail prices down. Previously, everything was shipped from the UK (Ripmax) to Germany for example, and since Hazmat shipping is expensive, retail prices went up.

Eastern Europe, btw, is another issue. I recently heared from someone in Russia that they have even some shops selling Estes products. Unfortunatly, only just a few can afford the prices. I currently do not know any manufacturer from Eastern Europe selling engines in a commercial way like Estes or Weco are doing.

Oliver
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  #43  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:30 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver
@Bill, I do not think that it will affect any given patents. My concerns are just that everything works smooth. There are so many factors (technichal, regulatory and financial issues) that may influence the production.

@RocketDoctor, I´m Oliver not Leo Yes, let´s hope that model rocketry will get better awareness in Europe in the future. I feel that, thanks to the Internet, more people are getting into the hobby than lets say 20 years ago. Additional, there was some good media coverage in the past years. What´s still missing is a broader coverage in local stores and less restrictions.

Regarding prices, it´s true that Estes engine prices are way too high. I hope that Revell find ways to reduce shipping and handling charges in order to cut retail prices down. Previously, everything was shipped from the UK (Ripmax) to Germany for example, and since Hazmat shipping is expensive, retail prices went up.

Eastern Europe, btw, is another issue. I recently heared from someone in Russia that they have even some shops selling Estes products. Unfortunatly, only just a few can afford the prices. I currently do not know any manufacturer from Eastern Europe selling engines in a commercial way like Estes or Weco are doing.

Oliver



Sorry Oliver for the mix up with Leo, was looking at Leo's post and then yours.

As far as motors go, they are still produced in Penrose CO, waht happens after that , only Hobbico knows.

Like i previously mentioned, Revell is a division of Hobbico. Plastic model here in the US are not as popular as they might be in Europe.

WalMart dropped all of their plastic model kits and then Estes products followed.

There are still segments here in the US wehre rocketry is few and far between. Mainly, in my opinion, launch sites. Many schools restrict their fields to sports, and everything else is secondary.

53 years of rocketry now in the US. We would like to see more of our internataionl friends

RDgetting involved as well.
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  #44  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:56 PM
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Oliver Oliver is offline
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No problem mixing the names. I´m not good in remembering names anyway

You are right, as long as the Marbels will run, everything is working fine for Estes. Even when everything was outsourced to Mexico and China, the engines remained in Penrose.

Different to the US, you will find Revell plastic kits in almost any toy and hobby shop over here. The brand is so well-known that it is clever to market the rockets under the Revell logo.

Ok, Walmart gave up in Germany a couple of years ago (not because of rockets - they never carried any). But there is still ToysRUs for example. Like in the States, they are fewer hobby stores than years ago and even far less toy stores. Maybe Revell finds a way to push rocketry into the toy store world, that would help a lot.

The reason why it sometimes look that there are very few European rocketeers out there is that Europe is still divided into many, many countries and having dozens of languages. In most countries, there are sometimes dozens of small clubs. And even within a country, it may happen that they devide (like in Belgium, where they speak 2 different languages and recently the former national organization decided to be one for one part of the country only). Many active rocketeers are just interested in their specific segment of the hobby - contest flyers, highpower or water rocket flyers to name a few. Sometimes there is even few communication between them. In the US, there are 2 main organizations and one language - making things easier sometimes.
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  #45  
Old 02-11-2011, 09:56 AM
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Cohetero-negro Cohetero-negro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo
Mid 2011 or not... I just hope they come out.

Estes engines cost a fortune here. The German Weco engines are inexpensive but no engine type is alike.



Leo,

That is too bad

I must admit that European hobbyists, IMHO, pound per pound (newton per newton) are better than Americans.

This is for several reasons:

1) Education in Europe in held in higher esteme than here in America. In America we beat up and make fun of our Nerds. In Europe/Asia they are seen as the weapon/means to advance a country and economy, in the U.S. they are a target of scorn, ridicule and bullying and that is at the adult level!

2) Because of the costs of supplies, materials, and access to materials, Euro-modelers have to improvise and be creative. In America, most hobbyists (not on this board) don't build anything. Go into an American hobbyshop and look at the airplane/car/boat offerings: ARC, ARF/RTR/RTF... ask a typical R/C plane flier to build a wing one rib/spar at a time and they wil laugh at you... if it isn't foam, pre-built and pre-covered, its junk [sic]!

3)In Europe trade schools are designed as an integral part of the society. So if you can't discover new sub-atomic particles, you will be given the skills to fabricate the particle accelerator. I have seen what is made in Eurpean workshops and kitchens and it has been very impressive.

I think there are Americans who are just as good; problem is that when you factor in the entire population, it tends to weigh down Americans as a whole.

We (America) have some of the most STUPIDIST and USELESS people on the planet.

An African goat herder shows more work ethic and resolve than do some Americans. Why? Answer: The goat herder will die if they don't get the life sustaining resources they need from the goats. In America, you can be a COMPLETE WORTHLESS piece of #&$@ and demand a welfare check on threat of rioting and buring down cities...

Given our individual potential, most American's fall FAR FAR FAR short of their maximum potential.

We have an internet that brings the UNIVERSE to your screen via a few keystrokes ... now how many Americans really utilize that power? How many are on the TMZ or American Idol website or downloading p orn as opposed to sites that really mean something and make a difference (positive) in one's life? I think I posted the John Stossel. 'Stupid in America' link on here, but if you want to see what the typical American's education and knowlege level is all about, just search youtube for the 20/20 show, 'Stupid in America'.

If someone asks me a question that I don't know the answer to, I tell them I don't know. I guess I am a strange one...

Myself, I am affraid to open my mouth in public. OH sure, I have beaten up so many people on the rocketry sites, that they know I am a bit different than the crack seller you see on ghetto street corners near you, but in REAL LIFE where people don't know and don't care to know me, my skin color proceeds any NARAM wins, any flights into near-space, and college degrees... they see 50 Cent, they see crack dealer, they see criminal before they see Jonathan Dunbar... its tough. I am not seeking sympathy, just sharing and being open and honest with my perceptions of myself and the world that I live in. People are people ... that is the really sad thing of life.

Drugs, narcissism, bad life decisions, popular culture retard the success of millions of Americans. We (Americans) feel that we are the best on the planet, and we are NOT. Actually after 2-3 generations (from Sandles to Sandles in 3 generations), most people lose work ethic and adopt, 'play ethic'. We rank at or near the bottom of the industrial world in science, math, chemistry ... its starting to show as the opposite is occuring in Asia. In Asia NERDS are used by the Chinese government to break into American and Western industries and steal secrets. Education has long be an intergral part of Asian history. Problem that derailed China was the Opium they were WILLING to be hooked on. The British used this as a means to CONTROL the Chinese population. I think they aren't will to make such a culture destroying mistake in the near future ... they execute drug dealers in China. Here in America we give drug dealers programs...

Note: I know that there are some drug users on this board. Drugs DESTROY the society in the end. OH it feels good when the chemicals get to the brain and you are 19 miles high ... but in the end, we all suffer. Drugs destroy, sure its fun along that road to hell, but its still hell we reach...

We went to the Moon, not because the average immigrant was educated in orbitial mathematics ... we went there because a very talented (Genius) group of NAZI scientists were captured after WWII and put to work on our missile technology. We have advances in medicines and chemistry not because the average West Virginian carries chemisty and calculus books under their arm while on their way to church to drink stricnine and speak in tongues, but because German immigrants (Jewish) fled Germany during the 30's and brought their talents here to America where business made fortunes off of their discoveries and inventions. So much of what the typical American excepts as truth is mere illusion; my opinion.

As a result, as a group/unit, America is many notches below the rest of the world. And our standard of living is now that of Britain and falling. What fools in the end we are as a GROUP. Yes there are individuels that stand out, but if you summed up the total 300+ million Americans, we are a sad, narcissistic, and decaying group... as a whole.

I know, if I don't like it here, get the hell out! If I only had the resouces I would.

I have a step-son who couldn't find a job here in the U.S. , so back in 2009, he moved to Singapore .... he is doing far better there than he was here.

I play powerball/mega millions. If I win a jackpot, first thing I do is give the greedy oligarchy called the United States Federal government their 50%. With the remaining, I put 80% into non-U.S. Dollar currency; maybe gold, silver, Yuan, or Euro... just get my wealth out of dollars. The next thing I do is buy a place to live either in the Mederterainian or Asia. That would be my fairytale end game

One of these days, I would love to compete FAI style with Europeans as I have a lot of respect for the Euro-flyer and would consider it an honor to compete against the best on the planet!

Who knows, a FAI comes to Gernany or a country near you, I just might meet you in person!

Jonathan

P.s. if I mispelled any words, its not a function of my inability to load this text into a spell checker, but my ingrained lazziness as an American
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