I've been watching this kit all week as first time seen. The kit was not recorded in the 2009-2011 database and Mojo1986's historical pricing records from 2004-2007 did not show an appearance either. The blue skill level version was the Delta's end of life appearance in the 1972 catalog.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=230790093746

I wish the kit would not have had the facecard pricing oval blackened but small anomaly for such a difficult kit to locate.

Anyone else share my opinion for this kit's rarity? Also any insight into the size of the blue skill level production run would be appreciated as will be writing up the description page on my website today.

New front/back images will have to wait until I return back to US in early June.

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Estes kit pricing history and individual kit descriptions at www.seateddimevarieties.com/BAR/home.htm At least a work in progress....

Well Gerry, honestly ... I think it was the seller that won in the end, but grats to you! Tough kit to find and if it makes you happy, that is ALL that matters

Jonathan

Yes, it was a relatively expensive purchase but needed this one to continue completing my skill level kit collection.

Any idea how difficult this type of project would be? On the surface, YORF members may think it is fairly doable. But if one considers the Mars Snooper K20/1220 green skill level transition kit and this K16 Delta, then a skill level kit collection is significant undertaking that could take years to complete.

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Estes kit pricing history and individual kit descriptions at www.seateddimevarieties.com/BAR/home.htm At least a work in progress....

I did it back in the 90's, but skill kits were in the $20 - $80 range. I remember buying dozens of kits from Robby's Rockets, Jim ... darn I forget his name, and Danny Sagstetter's RMR newsgroup auctions.

Back then, K Kits were in the $120 - $200 range max. Its going to be hard to collect them all because many of the kits you didn't think were skill kits were for some reason or another.

There were K Kits that were sold in skill level packaging in their final year or two or even in their final months... those are the hardest ones to get and will list both the K-## and the K-12## on them. Then there are the variants; kits sold in the same year, same packaging, and one has a plastic cone while the other is balsa.

And then there are the skill packaged kits with the OBVIOUS K-Kit instructions and parts.

There is also no real way to determine that you have all the skill level variants as you do with the K-Kits aside from changes in the packaging, e.g. line drawn, graphics on the face card or folded instructions, or the eventual face cards.

IMHO, collecting K-Kits while more expensive, can be tracked and audited much easier than the skill level kits.

Get those not so common kits when you can, but hold up going over board as I am starting to get my hands around my collection and I would rather trade for what I might need instead of spending 10's of thousands.

I was about to pull the trigger on Danny's auction but with seconds left, I asked myself do I really have $455 (my high to enter) for the kit, or can that cash be better spend elsewhere ... and I already have a bagged Mars Lander so I pulled back and said, 'dude I have trip to NARAM in less than three months! Save your money for that!

Also Danny has a reputation. If you want to know more about that, pm me.

Good luck!!! the Delta vehicle comes in 3 types of packaging and the Skill level would be the rarer of the three Three that I know of

Hmmm make that 4 as I forgot the Red-Blue-Black hang tag that might actually be rarer than the skill level packaging!!! Line drawn, then K-Kit with capsule around the Earth logo, then Red-Blue-black, then Skill level ... I think that covers the variants. I don't know for sure. Maybe five ... there was the hang tag with the Estes Logo and Damon separately ... there used to be a site that had scans of all the hang tags ... use the 'wayback' machine on the web to try and dig it up.

Jonathan

I hate this ... I remember Jim's last name, Jim Stuckman. He is dead now as is the previous owner of Robby's rockets.

Danny Sagstetter is still around and sells his collector's journal ... get a copy because as long as Danny can draw a breath, you will NEVER see those things copied and sold for just a few dollars on ebay. Plus, the journals really do contain very useful information about early retail rocketry.

Danny sold most of his collection a few years back, but he still has an occasional gem on ebay every so often; not sure if he is actively reading YORS, but his ebay ID is DANE1945 ... that was the year of his birth ... I know because I asked him about it once.

Jonathan

Gerry,

I am a little embarrassed as I didn't see or know of your hang tag site: http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/...ngtag_guide.htm

As you know hang tags were red/green/yellow/orange/blue/white font on black, blue font on white, black font on white, and the red/blue/Earth on black tags. There was an attempt to list them on the early site, but you have done a far better and more extensive job than the former:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050619...s.com/estes.htm

I found your link when searching for the older 1999 link, so I am not offering anything new to you

Oh, and there were kits that had no tags at all. These were sold in assortments and part of starter sets. Finding an old K-Kit/Skill Alpha or Bertha with no tags at all is possible. These kits just have the Mylar sealed like the old line drawn kits yet they are post-Damon; OEM packaging. Also those starter sets had the old BROWN/TAN motor tubes that were in the 1970's starter sets.

I looked around, but in the Estes catalog photos, the engines are just lose and there is no motor tube; they were brown and not blue/red as they were when sold separate. Here is a photo:



The motors are just laying there on the paperwork and I would guess done so for clarity. They actually came in a brown tube with white end caps.

FYI in case someone is trying to sell you a 'mint' untouched starter set with original motors ... not to say they couldn't have been sold in blue/red motor tubes, but from the examples of 'MINT' starter sets from that era that I have handled, the tubes have ALL been brown, lose spiral (the gap in the paper spiral is large enough that as you run your fingers along it, you feel it), and had the white paper caps on the end.

Jonathan

P.s. starter sets pre-Damon did have the blue tubes, just thought I would clarify that. The Damon sets had the brown tubes.

Jonathan..... this link is quite good for detailed review of Estes hang tag types into the early 90s. http://www.seateddimevarieties.com/...ngtag_guide.htm

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Estes kit pricing history and individual kit descriptions at www.seateddimevarieties.com/BAR/home.htm At least a work in progress....