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  #31  
Old 01-18-2014, 05:44 PM
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Vern Estes and to some extent G. Harry Stine catch a lot of heat on some forums for allegedly heavy-handed tactics in steering model rocketry in the 1960s toward their own personal vision, which some consider overly regimented and safety-obsessive.

The only problem with that is if the sport had continued its 1950s/"October Sky" direction from the days of Sputnik and into the space-obsessed Sixties, there would have been a huge number of additional kids, most not really all that competent, mixing up propellant in their basements and producing mushroom clouds in their garages.

Which mainly would have resulted in a lot of additional laws and regulations (think CA rocketry laws on steroids) all over the country and for most of us the only rockets we would have gotten to launch would have been water-bottle rockets.

It's probably better that HPR and EX did not make major advancements until the 1980s or so, by which time most of the goofy kids from the Sixties were in their 30s or so and their first instinct in terms of building a rocket was not to go down to the basement and try to mix 5 pounds of propellant in Mom's fondue kit.

It's probably better that that subdivision of the sport developed when the majority of people taking it up for the first time were likely to be adults who had had some interest in the subject matter for a good number of years.
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  #32  
Old 01-18-2014, 06:31 PM
Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed.brown
I've known Vern and Gleda since March of 1966 When Vern hired me. He is my number one hero and always will be (although Carl and Sheryl McLawhorn as well as Leroy Piester and his family come close, but I didn't know them quite as well). While I've heard some of the same stories, I place a minimum of credence in them. They all went through very lean times in pioneering and developing this hobby for the rest of us. I know of many times when they all helped their workers, customers and total strangers with no publicity or fanfare. Vern was always willing to listen and consider our ideas and encouraged us all to develop personally by example and in many other ways. They were all human in the best sense of the word and being human I'm sure they made mistakes just like the rest of us. But they went out of their way to correct them also.

This is my sincere opinion,
Ed Brown

Thank you for your input on this, Ed. A firsthand experience since you worked for him for many years.
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  #33  
Old 01-18-2014, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
I see. Attachments.

OK. You guys have done it again. I thought I knew the Jetex story pretty well... In days gone by, I have flown my share or more of Jetex powered craft. (Including the wonderful Jetex powered Dyna-soar that I built from plans in American Modeler or some such place.) But I never knew that there were Jetex verticle launch vehicles.

I do remember trying to build the Jetex powered Snark from plans in one of the "Modern Popular Scientific Illustrated Mechanics" type of magazines from the late 1950's or so. (I'm not sure, but that article may be on YORS magazine page.) It was a rather complex, catapult launched missle that used Jetex as a sustainer. It was beyond my model building skills at the time, and I never finished it.

The Fireman
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  #34  
Old 01-18-2014, 09:00 PM
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I have read various places that Jetex motors did not have enough thrust to lift more than their own weight, and thus were not capable of vertical 'rocket' flight.

Jetex "rocket' vehicles could be launched at an angle and achieve flight through lifting fins/wings, but they couldn't take off vertically. I seem to remember at some point reading/hearing about people using small spring catapault devices on the launcher to give Jetex 'rockets' some vertical velocity and get them into the air.

Jetex pretty much came and went before my day so I can't attest whether it is true or not.

EDIT: I see Fireman's post above pretty much addresses this point.
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  #35  
Old 01-18-2014, 09:12 PM
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I attached a Jetex 50 to a balsa glider, by the time I got the Jetex hissing the balsa was on fire and it crashed and burned...my one and only Jetex adventure.
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  #36  
Old 01-18-2014, 09:16 PM
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JStar,

That would pretty much match my experience with them. The Dyna-soar was capable of a pretty steep climb, but it was not true verticle flight. It would climb "like a home-sick angel" and then make a long, lesiurely glide back to the ground.

Jetex was a different breed of cat than the Estes rockets we all know and love(?) but it was a lot of fun. I wish someone would ever bring back a Jetex style engine, so you younger modelers could get to know them first hand.

And so us old-timers could fly some of our favorites again.

I suppose the government could find all sorts of excuses to keep that from ever happening.

I keep hearing rumors of a "recipe" for homebrew Jetex fuel, but I have never been able to get a hold of it. Such a thing would violate NAR safety rules, of course, but it would be nice to have such a thing. You know, just for educational and historical purposes. Of course.

The Fireman
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  #37  
Old 01-18-2014, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNGA
I attached a Jetex 50 to a balsa glider, by the time I got the Jetex hissing the balsa was on fire and it crashed and burned...my one and only Jetex adventure.



I have to smile reading this... I had that happen to me more than once in trying to learn the art of Jetex flite. It did make for some interesting flights, though.

This was especially a common occurance if you tried to light the Jetex wick with a match or a lighter. We finally learned that the best way to light it was with a stick of left-over fireworks "punk." Or with a lighted cigarette or cigar. [NOTE! Don't try this at home, kids. Tobacco is bad, nasty stuff. and the Morality police will get you if you try such things.]

For those who don't remember it, Jetex wick (that is what they called it. Not fuse. Wick. That is those pesky British for you...) was interesting stuff. In the very early days of model rocketry, Jetex wick was often used for igniting rockets.

Jetex wick consisted of a very fine copper wire coated with a flexible pyrotecnic coating. It looked a lot like thin plastic insulated copper wire. Useful, if sometimes infuriating stuff.

Sometime around 1959/1960, a large shipment of Jetex wick was damaged in shipping. Instead of the brown, smooth flexible wick we knew and loved, every can you opened was dried out, crumbly and grey. It wouldn't work for much of anything. I have often thought that that one bad shipment was probably instrumental in putting an end to Jetex in the US. Even though later shipments were high quality, the damange had been done in the minds of American modelers, and Jetex pretty much disappeared from the market.

The Fireman
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  #38  
Old 01-18-2014, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireman
I have to smile reading this... I had that happen to me more than once in trying to learn the art of Jetex flite. It did make for some interesting flights, though.

This was especially a common occurance if you tried to light the Jetex wick with a match or a lighter. We finally learned that the best way to light it was with a stick of left-over fireworks "punk." Or with a lighted cigarette or cigar. [NOTE! Don't try this at home, kids. Tobacco is bad, nasty stuff. and the Morality police will get you if you try such things.]

For those who don't remember it, Jetex wick (that is what they called it. Not fuse. Wick. That is those pesky British for you...) was interesting stuff. In the very early days of model rocketry, Jetex wick was often used for igniting rockets.

Jetex wick consisted of a very fine copper wire coated with a flexible pyrotecnic coating. It looked a lot like thin plastic insulated copper wire. Useful, if sometimes infuriating stuff.

Sometime around 1959/1960, a large shipment of Jetex wick was damaged in shipping. Instead of the brown, smooth flexible wick we knew and loved, every can you opened was dried out, crumbly and grey. It wouldn't work for much of anything. I have often thought that that one bad shipment was probably instrumental in putting an end to Jetex in the US. Even though later shipments were high quality, the damange had been done in the minds of American modelers, and Jetex pretty much disappeared from the market.

The Fireman



Got me thinking about Jetex, went over to Ebay....quite a bit there, but a whole lot more than I paid in 63.
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  #39  
Old 01-19-2014, 12:25 AM
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This is from somewhat third-hand discussions, but I remember being told at some point that Jetex engines are not constructed strongly enough to handle pressures any higher than they did under the 'standard' propellant, so if somebody came up with 'Super-Jetex' fuel, the engine casings probably couldn't handle it.

But again those who have actually flown them would probably know better.
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  #40  
Old 01-19-2014, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStarStar
This is from somewhat third-hand discussions, but I remember being told at some point that Jetex engines are not constructed strongly enough to handle pressures any higher than they did under the 'standard' propellant, so if somebody came up with 'Super-Jetex' fuel, the engine casings probably couldn't handle it.

But again those who have actually flown them would probably know better.





Absolutely true, as some "basement bombers" found out, even back in the 1950s. The Jetex motors did what they were ment to do, and they did it very well. But they would not, should not, could not handle a more intense, "super-jetex" fuel.

Any homebrew Jetex tablets would have to match pretty closely the impulse and presure of the original.

About the Jetex stuff on e-bay... It would be interesting to know what the "shelf-life" of original Jetex fuel tabs might be. If you could get some of the old ones, at a premium price, of course, would they be "safe and effective" or not? Anybody here have any thoughts or experience on the subject?

The Fireman
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