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  #51  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:43 PM
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BEC BEC is offline
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One of the things that really mystified me when I came back to rocketry about 7 years ago (after a 30+ year hiatus) was the whole flying furniture build style of some HPR models that I saw at a couple of launches and see touted on TRF (and that awful Sport Rocketry article).

Coming from an aviation and engineering background the stupid things just didn't (and still don't) make sense to me not only for the reasons cited above - which are very compelling, and probably overriding - but also for the pure waste of performance with excess weight and sometimes drag (thick, square-edged fins for example). But then I was the guy who flew little R/C airplanes in competitions with bigger ones and flew electric against glow/gas back when that was a real challenge.

The "more power - ar ar ar" crowd exists in the R/C world as well. Heaven help us when that mentality starts getting more into quadcopter and such that require no skill to fly (as long as all the on-board guidance stuff's software doesn't hiccup).

My wife and I were driving through central New Mexico this evening and I was looking at all that flat ranch land and dreaming of owning my own flying site....and the points made above would make me want to not permit HPR on such a site for the same reasons Luke cites for his farm. *sigh*
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  #52  
Old 06-08-2017, 10:58 AM
BronzeGiant BronzeGiant is offline
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Yes, my cousin and I have often asked, with the trend toward larger and higher powered rockets, when does a model rocket stop being a "model".
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  #53  
Old 06-08-2017, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BronzeGiant
Yes, my cousin and I have often asked, with the trend toward larger and higher powered rockets, when does a model rocket stop being a "model".


"Officially", that would be when you enter L1 territory (H motors and above, roughly), and then it's a High Power Rocket.
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  #54  
Old 06-08-2017, 09:39 PM
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luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
One of the things that really mystified me when I came back to rocketry about 7 years ago (after a 30+ year hiatus) was the whole flying furniture build style of some HPR models that I saw at a couple of launches and see touted on TRF (and that awful Sport Rocketry article).

Coming from an aviation and engineering background the stupid things just didn't (and still don't) make sense to me not only for the reasons cited above - which are very compelling, and probably overriding - but also for the pure waste of performance with excess weight and sometimes drag (thick, square-edged fins for example). But then I was the guy who flew little R/C airplanes in competitions with bigger ones and flew electric against glow/gas back when that was a real challenge.

The "more power - ar ar ar" crowd exists in the R/C world as well. Heaven help us when that mentality starts getting more into quadcopter and such that require no skill to fly (as long as all the on-board guidance stuff's software doesn't hiccup).

My wife and I were driving through central New Mexico this evening and I was looking at all that flat ranch land and dreaming of owning my own flying site....and the points made above would make me want to not permit HPR on such a site for the same reasons Luke cites for his farm. *sigh*


EXACTLY!!

All you hear about, and seemingly the only thing that matters, is building heavier, thicker, stronger... plywood instead of balsa or basswood, fiberglass instead of paper tubing, carbon fiber instead of fiberglass... etc. etc. etc. I can understand "strength where strength is needed" but that's not what happens... EVERYTHING gets slathered over with layers of epoxy and fiberglass or carbon fiber and nosecones and fins get made out of aluminum (which was ALWAYS an ABSOLUTE no-no... it took a LONG time for aluminum reloadable motors to become acceptable, and they're encased inside the rocket, presumably (in the old days) surrounded by a soft wood and paper rocket designed to disintegrate if it hit anything rather than punch through like an anti-tank round...

I don't find ANYTHING REMOTELY impressive about such nonsense... A trained monkey can slather on another layer of epoxy and glass; it takes no particular intelligence or skill. What *I* find impressive is guys who can build HPR size rockets that can fly on regular "model rocket" size motors (2 G motors or less) and are impressive in the skill and techniques displayed in their construction.

Years ago we had a little club soiree at John Pursley's place one evening, and he showed us some of the projects he's been working on... He was making tubes about a foot in diameter out of 1/64 lite-ply that were literally light as a feather, but with internal "overlapping biscuit" hollow stiffening rings that made them very strong and rigid... He was making Depron tanks about 4 inches in diameter or so for a HUGE scale Saturn IB first stage... the first stage itself was supposed to be about 2 feet in diameter IIRC... He'd already built some REALLY big rockets, bigger than most HPR rockets (except the really monster big ones) and they flew on G motors or less... He showed us his finless rockets using guidance systems and gimbaling motor mounts for stability as well... THAT sort of stuff is what *I* find impressive... not some numb-nut whose willing to blow a wad of cash on some overpowered fiberglass anti-tank round....

Later! OL J R
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  #55  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:20 AM
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Pursley is doing some amazing stuff in the scale field. He is working on some incredible upgrades for the Saturn V that are along the lines of the upgrade kits he's offered for the Merc Redstone and LJII.

I hope he gives a presentation at NARCON 2018 in Houston, he's a star.
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  #56  
Old 06-09-2017, 12:27 AM
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LeeR LeeR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pterodactyl
Pursley is doing some amazing stuff in the scale field. He is working on some incredible upgrades for the Saturn V that are along the lines of the upgrade kits he's offered for the Merc Redstone and LJII.

I hope he gives a presentation at NARCON 2018 in Houston, he's a star.


If he's going to be there giving a presentation, I'm not sure how I can NOT go. I bought a number of Interceptors and Interceptor-E models when they were released a few years back. I really want to try his wraps for them.
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