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  #31  
Old 07-01-2014, 03:49 AM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Originally Posted by Royatl
Mike Dorffler expressed extreme puzzlement and frustration to me over the reaction here to the Phoenix Bird. He thought, from reading the forums, that we all wanted "all balsa, all the time" and was pretty miffed that we actually complained about the lack of plastic on certain items in the Classics Line.

I remember that. It was just a case of not paying close enough attention. The message he should have taken from us was one of historical correctness. Balsa was great in kits that had balsa cones to begin with, but on kits like the Alien Invader and Phoenix Bird, plastic was a big part of what gave the kit personality. Can you imagine trying to do an Alien Invader cone out of balsa?
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Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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  #32  
Old 07-01-2014, 04:19 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
Mike Dorffler expressed extreme puzzlement and frustration to me over the reaction here to the Phoenix Bird. He thought, from reading the forums, that we all wanted "all balsa, all the time" and was pretty miffed that we actually complained about the lack of plastic on certain items in the Classics Line.
That particular re-issue made me tilt my head like a confused dog. Estes already makes the plastic fin unit and nose cone of the Phoenix Bird (used in several Estes kits over the years), so all they would have needed was the plastic payload tube connector (in addition to the Phoenix Bird decals) to reproduce the kit. Even if the mold for the connector was gone, a balsa or "stage coupler with end discs" tube connector would have been an acceptable substitute. But re-creating the whole kit in "balsa-and-paper format" was just...strange. Estes' Star Trooper kit is equally puzzling, since they make a 4:1 ogive BT-5 plastic nose cone that is virtually identical to the Centuri Star Trooper's nose cone, yet they used a different-length balsa nose cone.
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  #33  
Old 07-01-2014, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
I remember that. It was just a case of not paying close enough attention. The message he should have taken from us was one of historical correctness. Balsa was great in kits that had balsa cones to begin with, but on kits like the Alien Invader and Phoenix Bird, plastic was a big part of what gave the kit personality. Can you imagine trying to do an Alien Invader cone out of balsa?
*Simultaneously nods and shudders at that thought* Agreed. Also, there are a few old Estes kits which I wouldn't feel were "ruined" if they were re-released with more modern decor schemes (methods of applying them, that is) and even plastic parts. For example:

I liked the two-engined, BT-70 size Gemini Titan II and the Thor-Agena scale kits, but I'd like re-releases of them even better if they incorporated judicious uses of plastic parts (as well as laser-cut balsa, fiber, and maple dowel parts), and a good modern body wrap on the Gemini Titan II would be vastly preferable to the original kit's "lighter fluid transfer" body wrap (!). (Another, new, customizable Thor IRBM/SLV kit that could be built as a Thor missile or the Thor-Altair, Thor-Burner II, Thor-Burner IIA, or Thor-Able/early Thor-Delta launch vehicles would also be interesting.)
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  #34  
Old 07-01-2014, 04:39 AM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Originally Posted by blackshire
That particular re-issue made me tilt my head like a confused dog. Estes already makes the plastic fin unit and nose cone of the Phoenix Bird (used in several Estes kits over the years), so all they would have needed was the plastic payload tube connector (in addition to the Phoenix Bird decals) to reproduce the kit. Even if the mold for the connector was gone, a balsa or "stage coupler with end discs" tube connector would have been an acceptable substitute. But re-creating the whole kit in "balsa-and-paper format" was just...strange. Estes' Star Trooper kit is equally puzzling, since they make a 4:1 ogive BT-5 plastic nose cone that is virtually identical to the Centuri Star Trooper's nose cone, yet they used a different-length balsa nose cone.

The Star Trooper was just an odd choice anyway. Not the most exciting bird even in the Centuri days. I'd have a hard time imagining that it fueled that many nostalgic dreams as a reissue. Still, I bought one. I'm such a whore.
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Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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  #35  
Old 07-01-2014, 04:48 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
The Star Trooper was just an odd choice anyway. Not the most exciting bird even in the Centuri days. I'd have a hard time imagining that it fueled that many nostalgic dreams as a reissue. Still, I bought one. I'm such a whore.
*SIGH* I too could not resist the urge to pay homage to the memory of the Piester Empire...several times... :-) The rear-ejection version of the Star Trooper (which the Estes version replicates except for the nose cone) looked intriguing, though, and if Estes re-released even the Two-Bitz, I'd buy one, er...two.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #36  
Old 07-04-2014, 01:19 PM
dannymrmissile dannymrmissile is offline
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Originally Posted by naoto
Recently I was thumbing through a recent Estes catalog and noticed that I wasn't looking over the contents with the same enthusiasm as a kid. Sure, I'm a lot older now, and not the kid that I was back then. The newer catalog seemed heftier than I remember from the old catalog -- so it's not the volume that didn't make me feel not so enthusiastic. After getting back home, I dug up some of the old catalogs that I had as a kid -- and looking over the items listed, I felt the same sort of enthusiasm I felt as a kid -- then it dawned on me -- the newer catalog picture of item, and the specs, but none of the descriptive text. Okay, so when you really look at things, the text is essentially a sales pitch -- but then a bit more. for certain subjects it helps to convey the concept behind of the particular model (e.g. especially the "scale-like", fantasy, and exotic types).

scans of some old catalogs can be found on Ninfinger's site:
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/rockets.html


Back then Vern Estes ran the show. He CARED! That simple...........
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  #37  
Old 07-05-2014, 08:47 AM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
I remember that. It was just a case of not paying close enough attention. The message he should have taken from us was one of historical correctness. Balsa was great in kits that had balsa cones to begin with, but on kits like the Alien Invader and Phoenix Bird, plastic was a big part of what gave the kit personality. Can you imagine trying to do an Alien Invader cone out of balsa?
I agree, no doubt, it was a mis-read.

But I think the nature of the web contributed to it.

It seems that, on the web, we will see the same stories and opinions repeated many times on various threads and forums. But the "data gathering" process fails to account for the repeats with the result that there is a distorted measurement of demand.

That is, while balsa evokes recall of precious memories, in the here-and-now, it takes more effort to get a food finish on balsa nosecones. So, from a practical perspective, plastic is preferred.

Anyway, I've tried to honor the effort - I know, while they were on the shelf, I did indeed add several balsa-cone-equipped kits to my stash. While it may have been a marketing mis-read, it was a genuine effort to cater to some of us BARs, and I sincerely appreciate the effort.

Doug

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  #38  
Old 07-05-2014, 10:05 AM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Anyway, I've tried to honor the effort - I know, while they were on the shelf, I did indeed add several balsa-cone-equipped kits to my stash. While it may have been a marketing mis-read, it was a genuine effort to cater to some of us BARs, and I sincerely appreciate the effort.


Definitely. I bought everything I saw or could get my hands on. Hobby Lobby is just so limited, though.
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Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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