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  #31  
Old 12-22-2012, 08:51 PM
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Sorry for the delay in getting anything else posted. Time just not there......

Anyway, I thought maybe the quickest thing to do that might answer at least some of the requests for parts photos, etc. would be to scan the front page of the instruction set so that way it would be easy to see the parts contained in the kit (without having to break out the camera and all the box contents, etc....in other words, something I could do now).

So, attached below find that scanned page. I'll post more as time allows, and I have some vacation days coming up here during the holidays which should help allow me to get to things like this.

As I commented earlier, this front page of the instruction set is different than the ones that, at least originally, came with the flying version of the Estes Saturn V in that it does not feature that shot that Vern made during the actual launch of Apollo 11, with it off in the distance rising from Pad 39A and his model Saturn V in the foreground on a stand.

I'll try to post more sometime in the next few days (probably after Christmas day).

Earl
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  #32  
Old 12-22-2012, 08:59 PM
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Thanks, Earl.
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  #33  
Old 12-23-2012, 10:09 AM
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With regard to the BT101 stiffness - having the three rings (one of which is the positioning ring for the motor bell plate) would be plenty strong to keep the tube round. Also, I would imagine that the plate is glued in place as is the upper stage, providing a very stiff and solid model.
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  #34  
Old 12-23-2012, 10:45 AM
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I'm surprised an SV kit that old has a plastic LES.
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  #35  
Old 12-23-2012, 10:49 AM
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All the plastic bits. Even the twice too many ullage motors.
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  #36  
Old 12-23-2012, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding58
With regard to the BT101 stiffness - having the three rings (one of which is the positioning ring for the motor bell plate) would be plenty strong to keep the tube round. Also, I would imagine that the plate is glued in place as is the upper stage, providing a very stiff and solid model.


Best I can tell, the kit only has two BT-101 centering rings including the bell plate, not three. The other two on sheet "I" are BT-80 size. The plans show only one "I" sheet, so that's it. I would think there should be three total, but there is no listing and I do not see one in the photo. That makes me think the ring under the letter "I" is the solid plate for the bell nozzles. This is one reason why I'm looking forward to Earl posting the complete plan set and to photograph the contents. It's possible the third ring is included but not listed in the plans.

My Centuri and Estes kits have multiple rings. If I happen to pick them up between rings and corregations they still flex. With a good two feet between rings on the BT-101 of the NF kit, I expect there will be more flex than on my any of mine. I'm sure it's stiff enough to display, but I sure wouldn't call it very stiff or solid.
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  #37  
Old 12-24-2012, 09:16 AM
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Not centering rings, stiffening rings. If the upper stage is glued in place then you should be able to get a little more stiffness in the upper third of the main BT. Also the remaining two couplers(?) Spaced down the tube will add more. If you are really concerned about it you can do what I do on display models, get a thin wall BT101 slit lengthwide and reduced to slip inside the main tube to fit between the engine plate and the upper stage. Too heavy for flight but works for display
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  #38  
Old 12-24-2012, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding58
Not centering rings, stiffening rings. If the upper stage is glued in place then you should be able to get a little more stiffness in the upper third of the main BT. Also the remaining two couplers(?) Spaced down the tube will add more. If you are really concerned about it you can do what I do on display models, get a thin wall BT101 slit lengthwide and reduced to slip inside the main tube to fit between the engine plate and the upper stage. Too heavy for flight but works for display


I'm not concerned, just curious. I have plenty of flying kits sitting around and I doubt Earl will build the kit as I suspect he has a couple of unbuilt flying kits stuffed away.

However, those aren't stiffening rings. One is a coupler to join the two pieces of BT-101. One is used to make the shoulder of the third stage transition that slides into the top and will have a centering ring to do the stiffening. One is used on the rear of the model to reinforce the nozzle shroud extensions and will have the bell nozzle mounting plate to do the tube stiffening.
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  #39  
Old 12-28-2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCBadger
Interesting that the EBay listed uprated Saturn I has recommended motors of A8-3 or B8-4. Does anybody know how high off the pad this model could get on 4 A8-3s or why C motors are not listed?



Badger,

The A.8-3 or the B.8-4 are in LB-seconds and not in the later N-Seconds.

4.45 Newtons = 1 lb, so the A.8 = about 3.56 Newtons.

Modern A8-3 (Newton-Seconds) give you about 2.5 total Newtons of output.
The older A.8-3 (Lb-Seconds) give you about .7 lbs total output ~= 3.15 N of output.

So the older A[dot]8-3 motors were about 30% more powerful than 'modern' A8-3 motors.

4 of the old A.8-3 (lb-seconds) motors are > total output of a modern C6-5 motor (~=10.1 Total newtons).

Also, the A.8-3 burned for just .9 seconds, while the modern C6 burn for almost 2 seconds!

So you get more thrust in half the time from the older (A.8-3) x 4 than you do with one C6 (modern).

I sure wish the Estes B8 or B14 (both newtons) or the Centuri C5 (Newtons) would be re-released as those are great ways to get heavier models in the air faster and therefore they stabilize faster as the air flowing over the fins is imparting greater force on the model to keep it pointed in the 'up' direction.

I hope this answers your question about the A.8 not A8 motors and why back then they were usable with a larger model such as this.

IIRC, the uprated model was the largest low power model rocket kit available until Estes and Centuri released their Saturn V? Well largest well known commercially available kits. Its 4:30 in the morning so I am still booting the bio-computer so memory banks are not all fully activated

Jonathan
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  #40  
Old 12-28-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Yeah, I would suspect Vern's email probably gets all kind of hits. I do have his business card here somewhere that he sent once with his phone number. But I don't think I'd call right in the holidays. Maybe after.

But if Carl could summons Bill that would certainly be another good place to start as well. And you are right too in that this kit could have preceded the flying version.

I just noticed that an original Estes 'Uprated Saturn 1' has just been posted on eBay. The box this non-flying Saturn V came in appears to be the exact same cardboard box, just different labels obviously. I can even see some wide (about two inch wide stuff) Sealing tape on the Uprated Saturn box photos that is the exact same as that used on the kit box I have.

Earl


The Estes Uprated Saturn 1 referenced above that was on ebay sold yesterday for something around $482. It was a sealed box, never opened apparently.

Earl
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