Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Golden Age of Model Rocketry > Model Rocket History
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-07-2008, 04:16 PM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
Surfrajettes Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: El Paso
Posts: 1,113
Default Other Scouts

As I was finishing up my sons and my SOG Scouts (#450-452) and the rebuild of my childhood Scout, I was looking though the old catalogs looking for paint schemes and discovered the Scout II and Scout III in late 80's catalogs.

What was the difference or improvement? I couldn't find a plan for either on any of the usual websites.
__________________
NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-07-2008, 04:27 PM
Gus's Avatar
Gus Gus is offline
7/21/61
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North of Detroit
Posts: 2,223
Default

My NAR section just had a group build of Golden Scouts.

Prior to the meeting the issue of how to paint them came up.

Peter Alway, always a stickler for historical accuracy suggested the following: "small bottle of Testor's gold, and a Q-tip".
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-07-2008, 04:30 PM
barone's Avatar
barone barone is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bartlett, TN
Posts: 3,352
Send a message via Yahoo to barone
Default Scout III Plans

__________________
Don
NAR 53455
"Carpe Diem"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-07-2008, 05:01 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
As I was finishing up my sons and my SOG Scouts (#450-452) and the rebuild of my childhood Scout, I was looking though the old catalogs looking for paint schemes and discovered the Scout II and Scout III in late 80's catalogs.

What was the difference or improvement? I couldn't find a plan for either on any of the usual websites.


The Scout III is mini powered.

If you look at the other Scouts, the motor retaining hook is like a regular engine hook (without the curly end).

The Golden Scout is your best choice.

The Golden Scouts are stilll available, and, July isn't that far off.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-07-2008, 06:17 PM
Doug Sams's Avatar
Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
Old Far...er...Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Plano, TX resident since 1998.
Posts: 3,965
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
[Re: the Scouts I, II and III] What was the difference or improvement? I couldn't find a plan for either on any of the usual websites.
As indicated by RD, the Scout III is mini-powered, and, as Barone sez, the plans are here on YORP.

The other resource is http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/rockets.html .
Scout II: http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rock...87/87est26.html
Scout III: http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rock...91/91est24.html

From there we get the catalog descriptions.

Quote:
[From the 1991 catalog]
Scout™ III
SKILL LEVEL 1. Updated version of first Estes
rocket features pre-cut balsa fins, balsa nose
cone, mini-engine power, and break-apart re-
covery.

Length: 7.5" (19.1 cm) Dia.: 0.763" (19.4 mm)
Wt.: 0.39 oz. (11 g)
ENGINES: 1/2A3-4T (1st Flt.), A3-4T, A10-3T.
No. 0878 $4.59
I have one in the bag, opened. It is indeed simply break apart recovery. It comes with a rubber shock cord and screw eye, but no streamer or chute. It simply breaks apart and tumbles in.

While it's limited to T power (and hence A impulse), I don't see that as a drawback. Most folks who flew them on B and C motors never saw them again

With the motor mount, it's gonna be heavier, yet it has no gauze for the fin roots. Can't help but wonder if it wasn't prone to cracks.


Quote:
[From the 1987 catalog]
SCOUT II
SKILL LEVEL 1 Updated version of Estes'
first mdel rocket. Originally developed in
1959, Scout teaches elementary balance and
design principles. Pre-cut fins, balsa nose cone,
kit decal, out-of-sight flights and tumble recov-
ery make this model more fun to built and fly
than ever. Length: 7" Dia. 0.765" Wt. 0.3 oz.
ENGINES: 1/2A6-2 (1st Flt.), A8-3, B4-4, B6-4,
B8-5, C6-5.
No. 1959

This is the big mystery version. No plans, and little other info. It says tumble recovery, but the pic does not show a motor hook. It does have the vent hole.

I wonder if this version ejects the motor and "tumbles" in (euphemism for lawn dart recovery) ala the feather weight recovery birds such as the Streak, Quark, etc . It uses the full sized motors, so it's not clear what, if any, differences there are with the Scout 1.

Doug

.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-07-2008, 08:29 PM
5x7's Avatar
5x7 5x7 is offline
Sometimes collector
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,786
Default

I have the Scout II and the only real difference is that it uses a flat spring steel hook instead of music wire like the original and Golden Scout. I flew mine once and the engine ejected past the hook.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-07-2008, 09:17 PM
Doug Sams's Avatar
Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
Old Far...er...Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Plano, TX resident since 1998.
Posts: 3,965
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x7
I flew mine once and the engine ejected past the hook.


Different hook, same ol' outcome - I guess that's par for us mortals

Doug

.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-07-2008, 09:30 PM
Doug Sams's Avatar
Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
Old Far...er...Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Plano, TX resident since 1998.
Posts: 3,965
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x7
I have the Scout II and the only real difference is that it uses a flat spring steel hook instead of music wire like the original and Golden Scout.
I'd say it's debatable whether that's enough of a change to call it a different model. Maybe they were counting the new paint job as well

Doug

.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-07-2008, 09:33 PM
5x7's Avatar
5x7 5x7 is offline
Sometimes collector
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
I'd say it's debatable whether that's enough of a change to call it a different model. Maybe they were counting the new paint job as well

Doug

.


It had a decal, that's what did it!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-07-2008, 11:25 PM
Mark II's Avatar
Mark II Mark II is offline
Forest Sprite
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Back Up in the Woods
Posts: 3,657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
As indicated by RD, the Scout III is mini-powered, and, as Barone sez, the plans are here on YORP.

[...]

This is the big mystery version. No plans, and little other info. It says tumble recovery, but the pic does not show a motor hook. It does have the vent hole.

I wonder if this version ejects the motor and "tumbles" in (euphemism for lawn dart recovery) ala the feather weight recovery birds such as the Streak, Quark, etc . It uses the full sized motors, so it's not clear what, if any, differences there are with the Scout 1.

Doug

.

I downloaded plans for the Scout II from the Estes website and sent them to Scott to be posted on YORP. As 5x7 noted, one of the main differences is the use of a engine hook made of flat spring steel, similar to a standard engine hook, instead of the music wire hook of the original. 5x7 mentioned that the motor kicked in the sole flight of his Scout II, and that is consistent with my own experience with another rocket, the FlisKits Tumbleweed, which operates on the same principle and uses a standard engine hook (ineffectively, in my experience). The original music wire hook was (and is) far more effective in retaining the engine after kick-back. (OTOH, the standard motor hook was effective in my Astron Sprite, but that might have had something to do with the unique dimensions of the Series III engines.)

Other differences: no gauze fin gussets, and the gauze motor hook covering is apparently replaced with what I take to be a paper template printed in the instructions that the builder cut out and glued over the hook. (5x7, was that actually what it was?) There is also a smaller strip to glue over the brass retainer wire. The small oval Estes logo decal that was the only decoration for the original kit has been replaced with a larger set of decals - one that shows the rocket's name and three other trim decals for the fin tips. The body tube is still a BT-30, and the nose cone is a BNC 30D. The color scheme, as shown in the catalogs and described in the instructions, is yellow and red.

Finally, the plans include a fin template, even though the kit was furnished with pre-cut fins, just like the original version. This is helpful because the printed template shows that the fin angle has been increased in version II from 22° to 29°, presumably to address the fin charring issue. (I think that this change alone was enough to earn the kit a new name.) The Scout II still uses 18mm motors. An interesting little detail: the kit number of the Scout II, #1959, corresponds to the year that Vern Estes created the original Scout design.

With the Scout III, the engine mount was changed to use the 13 mm mini "T" series engines, and consequently, version III was given a kit number (0878) that conformed to the Mini-Brute number series (08xx).

Mark \\.
__________________
Mark S. Kulka NAR #86134 L1,_ASTRE #471_Adirondack Mountains, NY
Opinions Unfettered by Logic • Advice Unsullied by Erudition • Rocketry Without Pity
+09281962-TAK-08272007+
SAM # 0011

Last edited by Mark II : 06-07-2008 at 11:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024