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  #11  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbomb Turk
I would appreciate anything you find as well.

It looks like the nose cone is the rounded BC-730P. The Semroc parts list calls it BC-730, but there is only 730G and 730P.
Sirius Rocketry www.siriusrocketry.com offers hollow-cast polyurethane resin duplicates of that and other "Type C" (and "Type E") plastic nose cones, as part of their "Moldin' Oldies" line (see: http://www.siriusrocketry.biz/ishop...oldin%27+Oldies ). They make more than they list on the "Moldin' Oldies" page (I have one of their resin duplicates of the Lance Corporal's #7 tubing nose cone, and other unlisted [on their website] "Type C" duplicate nose cones [here are the "C" nose cones' designations--with drawings of them: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/72cen060.html ]). Also, I'm not being 'cutesy' by using the abbreviations "Type C" and "Type E"; Sirius has to do that in order to avoid trouble with those companies, which are now one company. As well:

The X-7 rocket in the Centuri Power System Outfit (see: http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/show...p?t=8784&page=3 and http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/79cen008.html ) was essentially a Lance Corporal, and Semroc sells the fins for the X-7 http://www.erockets.biz/semroc-lase...et-sem-fce-ps7/ and the larger X-16 http://www.erockets.biz/semroc-lase...f-sem-fce-ps16/ rocket.

I hope this information will be helpful.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
All-

Attached below are PDFs of the two instructions sheets, fin and wood strips, and decals for the Centuri Lance Corporal.

The main instruction sheet (pdfs 1-2) were a single one-sided 11 x 17 sheet folded into 'quarters'.

Instruction sheets 3 and 4 were a single 8.5 x 11 sheet printed front and back.

The fins and wood strips are 1/16th balsa. Strips are 1/16th inch square.

Main body tube is 9 inches long. Booster tube and sustainer motor tube are the standard 3" lengths.

Decals have been scanned at 300 dpi jpeg (TIFF was beyond the 2mb upload limit).

Nose cone is the Centuri PNC-74, which has a more rounded tip that the previously mentioned PNC-76.

Hope this helps.

Earl
Are you sure about the nose cone? I just looked at a picture of a Centuri Lance Corporal in the latest--seventh--edition of G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" (in the chapter about multi-staging), and its nose cone has a pointed tip. (The nose cone of the X-7 rocket in the Centuri Power System Outfit--which was a re-labeled single-stage Lancer/Sky Devil [with the optional Aerobee fins, in the case of the Sky Devil, see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/79cen008.html , http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/show...p?t=8784&page=3 , and http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/79cen012.html ] with an optional Lance Corporal booster and an optional payload section--had a more rounded tip.)
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Are you sure about the nose cone? I just looked at a picture of a Centuri Lance Corporal in the latest--seventh--edition of G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" (in the chapter about multi-staging), and its nose cone has a pointed tip. (The nose cone of the X-7 rocket in the Centuri Power System Outfit--which was a re-labeled single-stage Lancer/Sky Devil [with the optional Aerobee fins, in the case of the Sky Devil, see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/79cen008.html , http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/show...p?t=8784&page=3 , and http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/79cen012.html ] with an optional Lance Corporal booster and an optional payload section--had a more rounded tip.)


I'm sure. The PNC-76 is very pointed and the PNC-74 is more rounded on the tip. I have boxed examples of each, aside from the PNC-74 that came with this kit.

The box art of the Lance Corporal, as depicted on page one of the assembly instructions (see the first pdf attachment in my post above) is very close to the shape of PNC-74. But, the two are functionally interchangeable, if one were so inclined to do so.

Earl
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:03 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Nose cone is the Centuri PNC-74, which has a more rounded tip that the previously mentioned PNC-76.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Are you sure about the nose cone? I just looked at a picture of a Centuri Lance Corporal in the latest--seventh--edition of G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" (in the chapter about multi-staging), and its nose cone has a pointed tip. (

The nose cone of the X-7 rocket in the Centuri Power System Outfit--which was a re-labeled single-stage Lancer/Sky Devil... [SNIP]

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/79cen012.html with an optional Lance Corporal booster and an optional payload section--had a more rounded tip.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
I'm sure. The PNC-76 is very pointed and the PNC-74 is more rounded on the tip. I have boxed examples of each, aside from the PNC-74 that came with this kit.

The box art of the Lance Corporal, as depicted on page one of the assembly instructions (see the first pdf attachment in my post above) is very close to the shape of PNC-74. But, the two are functionally interchangeable, if one were so inclined to do so.
Guys,

Wow! Earl, thanks so much for sharing all of your Lance Corporal documentation!

However, I think maybe we have our nose cone numbers swapped.

I checked both the 1972 Centuri catalog as well as the old Semroc website, and I came up with the attached document. You'd think that the bigger the number, the longer the nose cone (the way Carl McLawhorn did it) would be consistent. Hence, his BC-723, -730, and -734 catalog numbers.

BC-723P – “Centuri PNC-73 Balsa equiv.”
http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts...p?idproduct=918

BC-730P – “Centuri PNC-76 Blowmold equiv.”
http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts...p?idproduct=919

BC-734P – “Centuri PNC-74 Balsa equiv.”
http://www.semroc.com/Store/Scripts...?idproduct=1459


In other words, I think the longer 3.4” nose cone is PNC-74, and the rounded cone (the one on the Vector-V and Akela-1) is the PNC-76. Yeah, it's weird, I know.

Further comments? Please respond! Thanks so much!
.
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:14 PM
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Jay-

I was looking at this a second time myself earlier this afternoon and came to the same conclusion.

And the #7 series plastic cones are the only ones that don't follow the convention.

On pretty much all the other Centuri plastic cone series, the longest of the series is generally the 'higest' numbered and is also the 'most pointed' of the series.

BUT, on the #7 series this is not the case.

So, the Lance Corporal did have the more rounded cone, but in this case it is the 76 as you stated and not the 74.

Yeah, it is a bit confusing.

Earl
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  #16  
Old 01-12-2019, 08:55 PM
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Earl,

Given our nose cone consensus, I think I can post the following parts list for Bill "Vanel" Cooke.

**

Centuri Lance Corporal 1.00X

e-rockets SEMROC Parts List

SEM-BC-730 Nose cone 3.00” L
SEM-ST-790 Body tube – 9.00” L
SEM-ST-730 Body tube (2) – 3.00” L
SEM-BTC-7 Tube connector (bulkhead)
SEM-HTC-7B Tube Connector (staging coupler)
SEM-TB-7 Thrust ring (2)
SEM-SE-10 Screw eye
SEM-SP-224 Streamer
SEM-LL-120 Launch lug – 2.00” L
SEM-EC-136 Elastic shock cord – 36.00” L (trim if needed)
SEM-FCE-KD11 Laser-cut fin set – 3/32” T

**

Bill, you'll have to decide how you're going to attach the shock cord to the body tube. I'm pretty leery of the skinny 100# Kevlar cord that Carl included with his kits.

I usually use 1000# (add another zero to 100 ) Kevlar cord, which means I attach it to an EM-710 mount inside an ST-10 tube.

I whipped up a 1.37X ST-10 upscale version of the Lance Corporal back in July 2011, in case you're interested in taking a look:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=9657
.
.
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"I think about organizing things all the time. Never seems to happen. I find something that piques my interest and I'm off on a quest. Or a Centuri. "

--Bill Eichelberger, 02/22/2022


“Centuri fret buzz in an updated form.”
Bill “Wallyum” Eichelberger re: Estes Flutter-By
03 Sept 2014
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Jay-

I was looking at this a second time myself earlier this afternoon and came to the same conclusion.

And the #7 series plastic cones are the only ones that don't follow the convention.

On pretty much all the other Centuri plastic cone series, the longest of the series is generally the 'higest' numbered and is also the 'most pointed' of the series.

BUT, on the #7 series this is not the case.

So, the Lance Corporal did have the more rounded cone, but in this case it is the 76 as you stated and not the 74.

Yeah, it is a bit confusing.

Earl
Let me see if I can--without destroying it--scan the Lance Corporal picture in Stine's handbook, to post here. Its nose cone definitely looks like the Centuri PNC-74 in Jay's comparison picture in Reply #14 above (which, paradoxically, is longer--and has a more pointed tip--than the Centuri PNC-76). Also, I wonder if some kits might have accidentally been packed with the "wrong" nose cone (although either will work fine in it, of course), as it has happened occasionally in Estes kits.
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:34 AM
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Here (attached--please see below) is a photograph of a Centuri Lance Corporal, on page 182 of the fifth edition of G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" (it is in several editions, including the current [seventh] edition, in the chapter, "Multistaged Model Rockets"). The Lance Corporal's nose cone is a long, pointed-tipped PNC-74. Also:

We could all be right concerning which nose cone (PNC-76 or PNC-74) could/can be found in the Lance Corporal kit (and even in the Lancer, Sky Devil, and X-7 [in the Power System Outfit] model rocket kits). Unlike in the older Estes kit instructions, the specific nose cone types weren't listed in most--if not all--of the Centuri kit instructions. Now, because of this:

It would not be surprising if Centuri nose cone types were swapped out for similar ones if, say, they were temporarily (or permanently, if it was near the end of a kit's final production run, and/or near the end of the company) out of the "intended" ones for certain kits. Since the PNC-74 and PNC-76 could be used interchangeably, I wouldn't be surprised if they were occasionally swapped for each other (even the Lance Corporal shown in Stine's Handbook might have had the long, pointed-tipped PNC-74 due to this). The scan of the picture in the book is below:
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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Last edited by blackshire : 01-15-2019 at 03:55 AM.
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  #19  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Let me see if I can--without destroying it--scan the Lance Corporal picture in Stine's handbook, to post here. Its nose cone definitely looks like the Centuri PNC-74 in Jay's comparison picture in Reply #14 above (which, paradoxically, is longer--and has a more pointed tip--than the Centuri PNC-76). Also, I wonder if some kits might have accidentally been packed with the "wrong" nose cone (although either will work fine in it, of course), as it has happened occasionally in Estes kits.


Thanks for the book photo scan...I recall that image now.

It can sometimes be hard to know with some of these older kits which was THE originally intended part and/or which part was included in the kit in MOST instances.

I have a couple of each of the similar (but single stage Lancer) and a couple of the Lance Corporals, and each of them feature the shorter, more rounded PNC-76.

It gets even a little more confusing sometimes lookng at catalog photos of other Centuri kits. When introduced in the 1972 Centuri catalog, the photos of the Excaliber kit showed it definatley with the more pointy PNC-74 cone. However, I have several of these in unopened form and NONE of them contain that cone, including a definate first year edition of the kit. They all contain the more rounded PNC-76 cone, which I don't think really looks right for that rocket. So, when I built one of those kits 5-6 years ago, I pulled one of my pointed PNC-74 cones out of my vintage parts stash to use in the build.

So, it certainly can be hard to know at times which part may have been used to kit a particular model, even in the face of catalog photos. Intersting to investigate though.

Earl
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  #20  
Old 01-15-2019, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Thanks for the book photo scan...I recall that image now.

It can sometimes be hard to know with some of these older kits which was THE originally intended part and/or which part was included in the kit in MOST instances.

I have a couple of each of the similar (but single stage Lancer) and a couple of the Lance Corporals, and each of them feature the shorter, more rounded PNC-76.

It gets even a little more confusing sometimes lookng at catalog photos of other Centuri kits. When introduced in the 1972 Centuri catalog, the photos of the Excaliber kit showed it definatley with the more pointy PNC-74 cone. However, I have several of these in unopened form and NONE of them contain that cone, including a definate first year edition of the kit. They all contain the more rounded PNC-76 cone, which I don't think really looks right for that rocket. So, when I built one of those kits 5-6 years ago, I pulled one of my pointed PNC-74 cones out of my vintage parts stash to use in the build.

So, it certainly can be hard to know at times which part may have been used to kit a particular model, even in the face of catalog photos. Intersting to investigate though.

Earl
You're welcome. I've seen a few Lancer kits too, and they also all had the shorter PNC-76 nose cones. I see what you meant about the Excalibur--the illustrations of it http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/73cen020.html *and* of the two-stage Excalibur 2 http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/73cen70e.html both showed the longer, pointed PNC-74, which *does* look more appropriate on them. (The Excalibur in the Lunar Fleet photograph http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/72cen012.html had the longer PNC-74 as well.) It appears that Centuri did use them interchangeably, perhaps based on availability at the moment. Also:

Looking at the catalog illustration of the Mini-Dactyl (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/73cen00c.html ), I was certain that it used the PNC-54 nose cone (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/73cen060.html ), the same one that was used in the Star Trooper kit (Estes' 4:1 tangent ogive BT-5 nose cone, used in their Gnome kit, is virtually identical). But to my surprise, the Mini-Dactyl used a balsa nose cone that--if I recall the thread about it correctly--was *only* used in that kit (it *may* have been the BC-50 http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/73cen060.html ). I ordered a few duplicate Mini-Dactyl balsa nose cones from Semroc a few years ago, and they looked almost nothing like the nose cone in the Mini-Dactyl catalog illustration.
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