Since John posted this
in this thread:
Product Testers Needed




John,

I'll answer each of your questions:

Rechargeable: Yes, but only 12 volt gel cell or similar. I've modded an EB with an LED and a set of leads that connect to any gel cell I've got. I've launched 30 plus rockets for a local Scout troop with that setup and had no problems even though I hadn't charged it recently. I don't think I could have used a stock EB for all that, even with fresh AAs.

Battery Size: not certain what would fit.

Charge in or out: no preference.

Feet of wire for leads: 20 feet (ar whatever is the minimum plus a few feet). Make one controller that handles all LPR motor sizes that Estes/Quest/etc. produce.

Clip Style: I don't have an issue with the smooth clips, but I really like the stainless version that NARTs sells. Doesn't take much to keep clean.

Color: Yellow is very visible, so keep it that color. Can you make the wire yellow as well? I like visibility as I've tripped over and dragged & tipped over pads from not seeing the wire.

Wire Storage: I'd love to see a way to neatly store the leads. I like the way Apple has a wire wrap for their MacBook/MacBook Pro power adapters:
http://gallery.me.com/jduke/100028/...=12963590250001

Safety Key: Personally I like a removable key that hangs from the launch rod safety cap. That way someone can't press the button and launch while people are near the pad.

Buzzer: No thank you.

Cluster Capability: Would be nice-add a small feature, sell more motors!

Battery Location: In the controller or in a small external box. A 1.2-2.0 amp-hour gel cell is pretty small. That way I can choose what launch pad I use. Right now that's a PortaPad E with yellow legs from whatever generation those are from. I'm using a Fade to Black RocketWorks tilting head which uses a drill chuck to hold the rod. The E-pad is nice and low to ground for better stability and the tilt head adds some weight down low to add to the stability. So, placing the battery in the base would provide some stability. My alternate pad is camera tripod with a ball head and a drill chuck to hold the rod. The legs on mine spread nice and low to keep the pad low and stable.

Launch Pad

Launch Rod length: I think there should be 3 foot clear after blast deflector and stand-offs (like a short section of casing).

Number of legs: I like three, but four works.

Weight: Down low to promote stability for larger rockets. The current Port-a-Pad is too light for my tastes. I don't have any confidence when there's a breeze that it would stay stable.

How high should the deflector be: I don't have a preference.

If you are interested in what I've got put together, I can post a reply with photos.

Thanks for asking.

Cheers,
Jon

__________________
BAR 2007

I understand the cost and size constraints of the low power "launch or starter set" pad and controller. The only thing I would want changed is to add a provision for an external 12v power source. Including rechargeable cells (and a charger) would up the cost and weight (if that matters much) appreciably.

Does the current model work at all with 4 AA NiMH cells? Is that recommended?

For the mid-power set, do not do what Aerotech did and produce a cool looking, but fragile pad.


Bill

John,

For a low-power controller, there are only a few things I would like to see changed (but all of them would be cost uppers):

First, the wiring a little more robust and to provide a means to store the wiring. I like the suggestion above to take inspiration from Apple laptop power supplies.

Second, things that we need to read on the face of the controller (if indeed there really are such things) need to be more visible than with the current yellow EBs. The black ones with white lettering or the older yellow ones with black lettering were much better in this regard.

Flat-jawed micro clips are better, in my opinion, than those with teeth. In particular they are easier to clean. I have had one of the ones on my most-used Electron Beam lose its ability to grip - but I think that's a QC issue with the clips, not a design problem.

Rechargeables add cost, both for the cells and for the charger, since I'm sure you'd feel compelled to provide a charger if the cells were anything but standard flashlight-cell sized and were nickel-based chemistry so that chargers folks would already have for such things would work.

I disagree with the first poster about battery life with regular AAs - especially now with LED-based continuity indication. I converted one of my EBs to LED indication and got a whole season's worth of launches off of one set of Costco AAs, including some sessions with groups of kids. Now demonstrating that good quality NiMhs such as the Sanyo Eneloops or other "pre-charged" types do work and so noting in the instructions and on the packaging could address that. Based on my experience with other applications, I've no doubt that such AA-sized NiMHs will work in the current EB controller, and I think I'll grab a set and put in the beta LED-based unit just to verify that.

I do also like the idea of providing a way to connect an external power source (as Quest does for their little controller) so that folks who really want to launch 100 rockets in one day could.

Supporting clusters means current - and that means heavier gage wiring (which costs more)...though again I've little doubt that the current E-Beam could fire a two or three motor cluster, IF the igniters were Q2G2s, just fine. Something else for me to test this coming flying season.

I like the tethered-to-the-controller safety key....oddly enough, I used rubber bands to create a lanyard that is very similar in approach to tether the key to my Solar Launch Controller "back in the day" - back when that was a brand new thing.

I can do without the audible continuity indication, though I have both Quest and Pratt Hobbies controllers that do have audible indication (on the Pratt Hobbies unit there is no light) and that works, too. That said, audible is great for group settings, I have to admit.

I'd echo the first poster in that I'd like to see a longer launch rod than is currently supplied with the PortaPads. His suggestion of three usable feet after the blast deflector and a standoff mechanism is a good one. Other than that, the current Porta Pad is darn good. It's strong, it's reasonably adjustable and it handles both 1/8 and 3/16 rods. Of course there's no way I'd dare launch my Maxi Alpha 3 from it without staking it down somehow (see Jerry Irvine's post below for some good thoughts on that), but that's probably the only thing I have that flies on C and D motors that I wouldn't feel comfortable launching off of a Porta Pad unless conditions were marginal anyway.

I'll have to think a little more and maybe add more later.

__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE

I won't comment on all the points as my opinions on most of those echo the others here. Two points I would like to address are;

Battery type - the four AA batteries are fine, but an external jack to allow you to connect the controller to an external battery would be a great accessory. You wouldn't really need to include the external battery cable with the controller, but could offer it as an extra accessory with a plug on one end and and larger battery clips (like the ends of jumper cables only smaller) on the other. Plugging in the external cable should cut the internal batteries out of the circuit.

Safety Key - I really like the way Aerotech did it on their Interlock controller - it is spring loaded so you actually have to push in the safety key while you press the launch button. This way, you cannot accidentally leave the launch live. This could still be done with your metal key - just spring load it somehow so it does not engage without some action on the user's part.

Greg

The last Estes controller I purchased does have a spring-loaded key.

All the Estes controllers I've encountered since I've been BAR'd - coming up on three years now - require you to hold the key in. They did this very elegantly by simply putting a bit of what appears to be neoprene model airplane fuel line on the key below the cap. This must be compressed in order to maintain continuity.

__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE

There are a couple of molded in details I would like to see in the pad itself. I would like to see it able to accept 1/4" rods some way. I would like to see each leg have a spot to rest a piece of hanger folded to go over both sides to hold it down in soft dirt. I would also like to see a suggestion to put sand bags over the launcher legs when launching larger rockets or on breezy days.

I think the 1/8" x 36" rod is sufficient. I would like to see 3/16" become obsoleted and replaced with 1/4" x 3 and 4 feet. Local steel yards sell 1/4" cold rolled steel cheap.

The clips should be the flat style. There should be an extension wire option to double the offset distance so rules Nazis can comply with the silly offset distance rules in NFPA code.

There should be an external power option for sure. Go to a car battery, cigarette lighter plug, gel-cell options. Accessories!

It should be low to the ground UNLIKE the AT Manta. Having batteries in the pad would be okay, but you know what would work even better? A place to put water. Heavy, mobile, available, helpful.

Regarding the clips -
Flat jawed clips, no teeth
The thumb pads need to be flat, not domed.
They flip around in your fingers when trying to open them.

How about an actual safety "key". One that you would insert and turn.
This would give the controller a more professional feel.

A RED launch button, instead of everything being yellow, or one color.
Even a chrome sticker with the unit name would dress it up a bit.

An integrated cord wrap is a great idea. Centuri did this years ago with their "Powr Control" controller:
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...75/75cen22.html
I would prefer something a little more robust than the Centuri design though.

__________________
Hans "Chris" Michielssen
Old/New NAR # 19086 SR

www.oddlrockets.com
www.modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com
http://www.nar.org/educational-reso...ing-techniques/
Your results may vary
"Nose cones roll, be careful with that."
Every spaceman needs a ray gun.
Look out - I'm the Meister Shyster!

I wish that the Estes "E2" launch controller was still available as a step up from the Electron Beam.
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...92/92est12.html
I think that it was introduced in '92 and discontinued sometime around '97 or '98.

It used 4 C cells, or had a connector so that you could plug in a 7.2 volt R/C car style pack. When you put the key in, it had both a blinking LED and intermittent buzzer to indicate continuity. You then held down the arm button and the buzzer went to continuous, then pushed the launch button.

These days, it would just need a 30 foot cord instead of 15 foot...

__________________
https://masa-rocketry.org/

ok, here's my two cents worth .

...
For instance should the controller have rechargeable batteries?

Yes, but possibly offer the current type low-cost 'entry level' starter set controller,too.

What size batteries should the units have?

not sure it matters, as long as not something unusual ( try to find a battery for my polapulse controller these days ) . if rechargable, I htink Ni-Cad over lipo or NMH, due to nicads being more resilient to shiorting,etc.

Should the batteries need to be taken out of the controller to be charged or left in?

if rechargable, then definately left in.

How many feet of wire would you like to see on the controller?

about 30 is nice, again, maybe keep the number down on the intorductory stuff

Should the micro clips be changed to the type that have teeth, instead of being smooth?

nope.

What color should it be?

not sure it matters, although bright colors are good.

Should there be a neat way of wrapping the wire around the unit for storage?

that is a good idea, if that could be integrated, like a kiteline type spool on the bottom, or similar.

What type of safety key device do you like? Is a removable key the only way to go or would a safety button that needs to be held down along with the launch button the best way to do this.

you'll get 100 different answers here, I'd think and actual key, that needs turning, especially for a higher end controller, however, I have someplace an ald A7A engineering control, with two pushbuttons, requiring both hands to launch, so no way to accidentally hit both .

Should there be a buzzer along with the continuity light?

not if the light was bright enough.

Should the unit be able to launch a cluster type model?

YES, a solid high current controlelr with cluster or composite motor igniter energy.

Would you prefer to have the batteries in the base instead of in the part you hold in your hands like the old Big Foot launch pad? What are the pros and cons in doing this? What size and type batteries would you use if they stay in the launch pad base?

I would prefer in the handheld, so I can just carry it along to the field with any pad I might need, however, I have a Bigfoot and love the stability of that one, good for runnign out to fly. maybe a new pad design, with low center of gravity, ala Bigfoot, but without the batteries.

Since they go hand in hand with the controller what would you like to see in a new low power launch pad? How about a new E and above launch Pad?

see above, and yes, an E+ pad would be nice, somethign simplistic liek a scaled up porta-pad, not as complex or fragile as the Mantis ( I have one ), or something more along the lines of a camera tripod pad ( I have an old camera tripod with rod adapter, not sure who sodl those back in the day ) .

How long should the launch rods be?

3 ft seems ok, especially for 1/8", a 1/4" x 6 foot would be goood, 2 piece thread together, please. ( like LOC used to offer ) .

What Diameter rods should the pad be able to use.

1/8", 3/16",1/4"

What better, a three or four legged design?

not sure it matters, just larger foot print.

How heavy should the pad be?

as light as possible, fo rthose of us have to carry them out to the site.

How high off the ground should the blast deflector be?

I'd like to see it higher up, as long as stability can be maintained, maybe 12-18" ?


... realistically, I htink the standard 'starter set' pad and control is adequate, then maybe offer an upgrade for the serious hobbyist types.
Personally, I generally fly with a club, so don;t need upgraded equipt, as they have it set up - I actually donated some of my hpr pads and rods,etc tot he club as I'm not likely to use them on my own anymore.

DO think an upgraded 'pro style' control and pad might give the hobby some more credibility, something we definately need... next person comments abotu 'toy rockets' gets slapped hard.

~ AL