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  #1  
Old 10-27-2006, 11:47 PM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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Default Origin of the Classic Model Rocket Tube

Ok, so this has been bugging me. But not enough to get me to write Vern or one of the tube companies, or the paper company I used to work for. So you historians get to do this if I can get you interested.
----------------------------

The classic model rocket airframe tube is a thin walled, natural colored kraft paper tube, covered by a wrap of glassine.

Why?

Were these types of tubes being used for some other products back in the late 50's/early 60's? Or were they specified by Estes/MMI/someone else? I've never really seen them associated with any other product.

Shipping tubes were cheaply made, thick-walled, low grade kraft paper, or paper made from cheaper pulp.

Toilet paper and paper towel rolls were even more cheaply made, though some started to be made with bleached white paper in the 60's (same material as the tougher album covers of the day)

Tampon applicators were thicker walled tubes, but IIRC they had smooth outsides that must've been glassine, and the quality of the main paper wraps was low. Same for the tubes that went on pants hangers (in fact those seemed to be coated with a light tack adhesive).

The only thing I can think of is that they were used in large capacitor manufacturing, or maybe some specialized gift packaging.


How bout it? Anyone want to go sleuthing? Or just add to the speculation?
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2006, 12:21 AM
stefanj stefanj is offline
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Early Estes tubes -- specifically, the BT-30 and BT-40 -- were parallel wound. I've only seen the former. Pale tan, a bit thicker and tougher than a BT-20, with a seam.

I've also heard that the BT-40 & parts were stock inherited from MMI.

The BT-20 and BT-60 showed up fairly early on, but we can't know for sure what they were like back then.

This is a question that the Estes or Leroy Piester could answer.
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Old 10-29-2006, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
Early Estes tubes -- specifically, the BT-30 and BT-40 -- were parallel wound. I've only seen the former. Pale tan, a bit thicker and tougher than a BT-20, with a seam.

I've also heard that the BT-40 & parts were stock inherited from MMI.

The BT-20 and BT-60 showed up fairly early on, but we can't know for sure what they were like back then.

This is a question that the Estes or Leroy Piester could answer.


yep, the MMI tubes (which were eventually the Estes BT-40) were parallel wound, as was the BT-30 (I've heard Gleda initially used a little hand-cranked machine to make them)

At NARAM 47, I got an ADAST Astra (Czech) rocket at the auction. It's tube is parallel, a little mal-formed (though that could be from age... made in 1966), looks like thin manilla that was glued with a light shellac.

Yea, guess I'll go ahead and e-mail Vern.
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Old 10-29-2006, 11:56 AM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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I don't know if this helsp any, but if i remember correctly the parallel wound early body tubes had no glassine cover. It wasn't until estes switched over to the spiral wound that gllasine was added? why? I don't know. I don't think glassine covered kraft paper tubes was a stock item? I mean, you had to specifiy glassine to be added to the tube? I may be very well wrong on this. If you tried to order parallel kraft paper tubes today with a glassine covering, I don't think thats an option.

And roy..speaking of your czech Astra....when are you going to get around to scaning everything and posting it?


oh by the way Tim Van Milligan has a History of the body tube essay up on his website although it has some historical inaccuracies.... He states that it was Bill Simon who started the whole Estes BT-xx naming nomenclature in 1962 (which is when Bill Simon, then 19 went to work for estes), but if you look at the body tube designmations in the prior estes 60/61 catalogs, you will see they were already using the bt-xx terminology.

http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/newsletter09.asp

I suppose you could also email euclid paper tubes? or is it paramount paper tubes?


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Old 10-29-2006, 03:38 PM
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My speculation would be that spiral wound paper showed up when they contracted with Euclid Paper Tubing Company.
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Old 10-29-2006, 03:44 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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from the euclid paper tube company website:


The Euclid Spiral Paper Tube Corp. has been in business since 1956 producing insulators for the electrical industry. These include the flexible insulator for the oil filled transformers, shaft huggers tubes for small motor insulation, small battery cases, shim gauges for the audio speaker industry, and tubes for the model rocket market. We supplied the flexible insulation for the oil filled transformers built around the world. Most of the early capacitor market for the electronic circuit board was insulated by Euclid Spirial Paper Tube Corp.

Interesting that this company started just prior to model rocketry in 1957.

It would be an interesting story if vern would comment on how he came to choose this company over others.

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Old 10-29-2006, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
Tampon applicators were thicker walled tubes, but IIRC they had smooth outsides that must've been glassine, and the quality of the main paper wraps was low.
Umm... Since no one else seems willing to ask (even though I know they're all as curious as I) - how the heck do you know so much about that!??
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Old 10-29-2006, 09:16 PM
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OK...way too much information!
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Old 10-30-2006, 11:41 AM
mperdue mperdue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz
He states that it was Bill Simon who started the whole Estes BT-xx naming nomenclature in 1962 (which is when Bill Simon, then 19 went to work for estes), but if you look at the body tube designmations in the prior estes 60/61 catalogs, you will see they were already using the bt-xx terminology.

I think what Bill Simon actually came up with the numerical designation for the body tube size. IIRC, prior to 1963 a BT-30 was a BT-3, from the 1963 catalog on they used the numbers we all got used to, BT-20, BT-50, etc. I have no idea what inspired the numbers he chose...

Mario
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Old 10-30-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz
I


oh by the way Tim Van Milligan has a History of the body tube essay up on his website although it has some historical inaccuracies.... He states that it was Bill Simon who started the whole Estes BT-xx naming nomenclature in 1962 (which is when Bill Simon, then 19 went to work for estes), but if you look at the body tube designmations in the prior estes 60/61 catalogs, you will see they were already using the bt-xx terminology.



In the '61 catalog they are called BT-1, BT-2, BT-3 - MAYBE- Simon is the one who changed this to BT-10,20 and 30, the one to ask is Vern, he and Gleda come to Naram and I think all of the TARCs . There is at least one other inaccuracy on Tim's site - he states that Orville Carlise established 18mm as the standard motor size , no that was Ed Brown of Brown manufacturing who used that size tube for fireworks. Carlisle's motors were 1/2 inch diameter. Sorry Tim but that come straight from the late G.Harry Stine.

Dale Greene
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