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  #61  
Old 04-12-2013, 05:13 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Red face Sorry about all the confusion.

Thanks Sandman,

I'm sorry about all the confusion. I'll return the set I'm not going to use asap.

This is why I've tried to set up a decal gallery, so that the confusion caused by the shifting nature of the colors of Estes Decals can be prevented. If we can document the changes, perhaps someone will say "I want the X color blue, not the Y color blue" and save them and you a lot of emails.


For those who are curious, I was rather surprised by the purple set that arrived. It didn't match any (at that time) known to me version of the Omega. I have still yet to find someone who actually did get the combo kit "in the day", to find out about that body tube decal. I finally decided on the 1974 Catalog rocket to model my replica after.

I can't (without having a real Cineroc in hand) truly clone a stock one due mostly to the different plastics of the nose cone/camera casing/fairing/adapter. I could try, but after seeing Earl's photos, I realize that trying to fake those finishes are slightly beyond my level of ability, and well outside of my interest. The '74 rocket in the catalog was to my best guess painted to look a little nicer for the catalog, concealing the different materials, and making the overall appearance much cleaner and desirable.

I decided to keep the purple for the reason of trying to replicate a 701-K-52P, but it won't be used as a Cineroc launch body. I'm not as attached to that as I am the Cineroc. So, I'm more open to its variable color possibilities. Besides, it really does look good!

Hopefully, someday I can find a real Cineroc (or two) for myself. I'd want to modify one (I know, sacrilege) , and leave the other stock. Who knows, perhaps some set-in-the-70's movie or TV show would want to have a rocket launching scene with period accurate props, and still be able to catch the details (then create a software program to insert, say Jimmy Hoffa walking off with some guys on a late July day in 1975, into a "super-8" film discovered by young Bobby who is looking at his Grandfather's old rocketry movies )

Hope you have a good time at the Yuri Party tonight with "SHE"



Yes, I did watch that "in the day", my Step Father was a Lawyer (but a decent fellow anyway).

All The Best!
Jim

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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #62  
Old 04-13-2013, 12:48 AM
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luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
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Oh, I think the "variable finish" on the Cineroc would be doable... might not be a 100% match, but you could get pretty darn close...

I'd use gloss black for the shiny hard plastic shell part, and satin black for the duller parts, or flat black... You'd be AMAZED at the difference in the appearance between gloss black and flat black...

For instance, in my Dr. Zooch Lifting Body thread, I started off by painting the lifting body gloss black... I wanted a very "Dyna-Soar/Project Aurora" look to it... it was SO shiny it looked like it had been dipped in used motor oil! The look just was NOT right AT ALL for a "stealth plane"... SO, I bought a can of the same brand (Walmart Colorplace) FLAT black and shot it again... TOTALLY different look... the flat finish was much more subdued, yet made it look much more 'massive' and much more realistic IMHO, as the finish was MUCH closer to what you'd see on an SR-71, Dyna-Soar, etc...

Take a look at the pics in the thread and see for yourself...

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showt...95&page=1&pp=10

Take note of the very shiny finish of the gloss black paint in post 8, versus the flat black finish on the glider on post 12...

See how the choice of paint finish can REALLY effect how the finished product looks??

I think you can do the EXACT same thing on the different parts of your Cineroc body and nosecone and mirror hood...

Later and good luck! OL JR
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  #63  
Old 04-13-2013, 05:17 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Red face Well, third time is a charm…

This is the third time I’ve tried to type this up… This time I’m using MS Word, then I’ll copy it and post and edit to the forums. Chrome crashed twice just before I hit “post”

Ok, so… I didn’t get a chance to start the build for real until last night. I did assemble the parachute that Semroc included in the Omega kit. Now that I’ve done it, I’ll say, I still prefer Estes. I hate tying little fiddly knots. I’m glad to see that they did include a fishing swivel for the parachute. I typically use two, one for the shock cord, the other for the parachute.

I’m also planning on building a 2 stage Maxi Icarus, so I needed additional parts. Headed off the to LHS, and picked up my 3rd Mean Machine for cannibalism. I’ve got to say, I don’t like what Estes has done with the decals. Waterslide only for me please, self-adhesive only gets ugly fingerprints. Estes has done one thing that I found interesting… The 24 inch red and white “retro" designed parachute was pre-assembled, and they even did the cords the way I do. I hated the method they recommended when I was building back in the 80’s and 90’s.

With the Mean Machine in hand, I started thinking about the engine mount. Instead of using the stock Semroc parts, I opted to use the engine mount from Estes to build the booster stage’s engine mount. Now I’m thinking about getting another set of centering rings, engine clip, and using an Estes body tube to make the upper stage’s mount (the other one could go into the Maxi Icarus). The visible difference is noticeable to me. The Estes mounts are natural cardboard in color instead of Semroc’s white, and Estes’ clips are wider. A small difference sure, but I’m trying to make a very accurate replica here. I snapped off the end of the Estes clip to remove the “quick release” extra bit, and inserted that end into the slit in the body tube, leaving the factory edge visible.

I’ve had an engine mount fail on me before (an explosion of the booster engine was what snapped it loose), and I’ve seen other people not make theirs strong enough, only then to have the engine mount blow completely through the rocket body during launch. To prevent this kind of embarrassment, I gusseted my centering rings. I also use Elmer’s Glue-All for my white glue needs, but I like to let it age in the bottle for a while (since 1998 if the copyright info is correct. Now I'm curious, this is my "new" glue, where's the old stuff?) before using on rockets. Fresh Elmer’s is just too wet, for my needs.



Note, when Semroc instructions say 5/8" from the bottom, and Estes says 1" from the bottom, go with Semroc's instruction. I'll now need to cut a notch out of the tabs of the fins, unless I build a 3rd enging mount. Also, waiting for a slotted (closed end) centering ring for the Semroc engine mount. So the slotted centering ring in the photo isn't glued on yet.

I’ve used one of the perforated Semroc centering rings and an Estes solid centering ring (along with the unused Semroc engine casing, a spare tube coupler, an engine block, and some scrap 3/32nd thick balsa) to create the baffle. The solid centering ring was glued about 1/8” shy of the top of the tube, and given some serious fillets. The Semroc centering ring (intended for the bottom of the booter’s engine casing) was glued 2” from the top, but only after I joined a couple of the holes together to create a more open space for ejection gasses to pass through. I slathered both rings liberally with white glue to reduce the chance damage from the hot gasses. For the upper stage’s engine mount, I glued one of the small couplers (Semroc’s HTC-9) against the engine hook, this will be how the baffle and the engine mount are mated.





I cut four large rectangular holes about 3/8 inch wide, 1 inch long) ½ inch from the bottom of the baffle, and smeared the inside of the baffle’s tube with glue to seal any edges. I cut four smaller offset holes (1/4 inch x 1 inch) just below the solid centering ring, and again sealed the edges with white glue. I created the plug by taking the green engine block from the Mean Machine, and gluing it with CA to some scrap 3/32nd inch balsa, then added another layer of balsa to the top of that rotated 90 degrees. I glued this in two inches from the bottom of the baffle, and gave it fillets on both sides. After allowing this to dry, I applied some glue inside the body tube about 9 inches from the top, mated the baffle to the upper stage engine mount, and slid them forward until the bottom of the engine casing was even with the body tube.






I could go ahead and add the fins now, but I’m waiting until I can lay my hands on some balsa sanding sealer before I proceed with those.

Since I got the camera now, I'll probably start work on the simulated Cineroc payload section soon.

Lastly, I found two circa 1994 D12-0 boosters in one of my spares boxes. They will never be used on this rocket for launch, but I am using them to help with the assembly. I wonder what's lurking in my launch kit.

More Later...
Jim

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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Last edited by K'Tesh : 04-13-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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  #64  
Old 04-15-2013, 01:10 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Lightbulb Fin update...

I'm amazed at how lightweight the Semroc balsa parts are, especially the fins. I'm a little worried about them. So, to save me the grief of them breaking, I thought about cutting my own out of a little heaver balsa. Then I saw a YouTube tutorial on papering fins from ApogeeRockets. I will be papering the fins, I may still cut my own.

I'll start by doing a test run on some scrap.

I also found a forgotten stash of body tubes in the attic, including one BT-50 with a crushed end. The tube looks great for most of it's length, and the factory edge looked fine. I'm making my booster engine with that part... Now if I could only find an Estes engine hook for an E engine and a couple of Estes die-cut BT-50/60 centering rings somewhere in my spares box... I may have the rings, I'm fairly sure that I don't have the engine hook. Back to the LHS I go.

I don't need Angel Dust to fly, I've got Balsa Dust to spare!
Jim

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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #65  
Old 04-15-2013, 01:19 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Lightbulb Variable Finishes and a glare question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Oh, I think the "variable finish" on the Cineroc would be doable... might not be a 100% match, but you could get pretty darn close...


I know I could do that, but I'm making a reproduction of the rocket from the catalog, and not a stock model. So, the variable finish isn't necessary.

Now for my next question: To those who have managed to launch a keychain camera successfully, does a glossy paint job create problems with the video due to glare?

Jim

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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #66  
Old 04-15-2013, 02:12 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K'Tesh
I'm amazed at how lightweight the Semroc balsa parts are, especially the fins. I'm a little worried about them. So, to save me the grief of them breaking, I thought about cutting my own out of a little heaver balsa. Then I saw a YouTube tutorial on papering fins from ApogeeRockets. I will be papering the fins, I may still cut my own.



I've seen Tim's method, but I have one that works better than Tim's... It's in the Zooch Vanguard Eagle Build thread, description step by step with photographs, starting around post 6...

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showt...+vanguard+eagle

There's also some tips and variations over in this thread as well... more than one way to skin a cat, but out of everything I've tried, I like my method the best... details in post 8...

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showt...+vanguard+eagle

Later and good luck! OL JR
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  #67  
Old 04-15-2013, 02:14 PM
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luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K'Tesh
I know I could do that, but I'm making a reproduction of the rocket from the catalog, and not a stock model. So, the variable finish isn't necessary.

Now for my next question: To those who have managed to launch a keychain camera successfully, does a glossy paint job create problems with the video due to glare?

Jim

.


Okay... just trying to help... Thought you were going for the "exact appearance" that you mentioned in so many posts earlier... then you seemed to express doubts you could duplicate that effect, and I figured I'd tell you how it could be done and probably made to work well...

I guess I'm mistaken in what you're trying to do... Good luck with your build... very interesting.

Later! OL JR
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  #68  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:45 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Okay... just trying to help... Thought you were going for the "exact appearance" that you mentioned in so many posts earlier...


Not a problem Luke.

I'm trying to match the exact appearance of the rocket seen in the catalog (the one that Estes painted) gloss black to make it look more attractive. I realize now that I probably could create something that has much of the effect of the stock rocket (gloss black camera body, semi or matt black adapter, nose cone, and fairing) but that's not as sexy as the model seen in the catalog.

Think about your resturant meal. When does it ever look just like they do in the ads? In reality they are not as nice looking as that one made just once to photograph and catch your eye. I want to make the rocket that catches your eye (but still flies really well).

Hell, if I could, I'd make a "fake" just to display in all the local school science classrooms. Not to launch in reality, but to launch ideas in kids minds. I found the rockets hanging from Dr. Deller's classroom inspiring. I've had a lot more launches in my mind that I've ever had at the range.

Trying to make the world a little more surreal (one rocket at a time)
Jim

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__________________
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Last edited by K'Tesh : 10-26-2016 at 08:36 AM.
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  #69  
Old 04-15-2013, 11:20 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K'Tesh
Now for my next question: To those who have managed to launch a keychain camera successfully, does a glossy paint job create problems with the video due to glare?


Judge for yourself. Several different light levels represented here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrQwmsWK0Rg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHsG7d_r3g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrjVvyyIP-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZETHjMoRTuo
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  #70  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:18 AM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Default Got my decals today...

Got my medium blue decals today... These look to me to best match the image that Earl posted. However, as we know there are people who feel that the decal was more purple at one time or another, and the 1974 K-52P catalog photo looks to back that claim.

[EDIT] After being able to win several auctions on Ebay scoring original decals of several variants of the kit, or making deals with other rocketeers, I've yet to find a single confirmed version of the K-52P/1200 using any kind of purple decals. Conclusion: It never shipped with purple[/EDIT]

So, to eliminate confusion when ordering Omega decals from Excelsior, Here's a shot showing the dark blue, the purple, and the medium blue.



Since there was an alleged precedent for the purple, I kept those and might someday be using them for a K-52P replica as a catalog photo model.

All The Best!
Jim

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__________________
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Last edited by K'Tesh : 10-18-2017 at 07:45 PM.
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