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  #1  
Old 04-28-2008, 06:49 PM
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MarkB. MarkB. is offline
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Default Scale Observations from a Newbie

First, let me say I'm a scale fan -- sport scale, Estes style (cones a little too short, tubes a little too long, inaccurate markings, that sort of thing . . . .)

But what I was thinking and hoping I might get your comments on is the way sport scale is done now. When we were kids there was Arcas, Aerobee, Nike-Smoke, Honest John, Nike-Ajax and the Saturns. That's what was flying in the mid-sixties and early seventies and we could build models of them.

Today, the equivalent would be Super Arcas, Orion, Terrier-Lynx, Black Brant, MLRS, Patriot PAC-3, and the Aries launchers; exactly none of which are available from the "major" manufacturers. If a kid looks for rockets at a NASA or DoD website this is what he finds and he can't build models of any them.

And that just the USA stuff. Why?

Thinking about it historically, we need Saturns, but we also need R-7 (after 50 years, no major kits) and Long March and the Shuttle. But for Dr. Zooch, as of today, nothing. How about Delta II? Zenit? Ariane? H-2 Manned configuration?

Are sport scale kits (and the rocketeers who love them) doomed to the 70's and before?

No flame intended, just looking for intelligent discussion.
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  #2  
Old 04-28-2008, 07:23 PM
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dwmzmm dwmzmm is offline
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There ARE some nice scale/sport scale kits out there -- you have to know where to look.
Some you listed (the Saturns) are pretty expensive, if cost is no object (Apogee, Sheri's
Rockets, etc), while others have smaller sport scale at reasonable costs (Dr. Zooch comes
to mind). Personally, I was fortunate (or lucky, which ever you prefer to call it) to buy up
some classic kits (Estes, Centuri, FSI, etc) while they were still up and running. These are
the classics that I'll never sell, for ANY price (now you know how much I value them).....
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:02 PM
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Estes has a few scale rockets. They have a Patriot (PAC-2 I believe) and some scale X-Prize rockets. However, I agree that the Saturns, Aerobees, etc. are better than any of Estes's scale rockets.
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:26 PM
brianc brianc is offline
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I guess it depends on how you define 'major' kit manufacturer...

ASP has some scale kits (including my fav, the Super Loki)
http://www.asp-rocketry.com/store/c...fm?Category=175

Quest has the Nike Smoke
http://www.questaerospace.com/items...tatus=0&Tp=&Bc=

But you're right- the 'current history' pickin's are slim...


Oh- as for how scale is done these days, it's a lot of scratch buildin'!!
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:30 PM
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tlp kits ..there is are about 45 different sport scale kits from them alone. I won 1st in a regional reciently with their sidewinder.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:45 AM
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Leo Leo is offline
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Well... for starters how bout these:

Space flight kits ...

or

Historical kits ...
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  #7  
Old 04-29-2008, 09:21 AM
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The Semroc 1/70 scale Saturn 1B is basically a clone of the Estes K29 S1B and is a GREAT value for the money.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:24 AM
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All good points,

I forgot about The Launch Pad. I have a TLP PAC-3 in the queue and they do have a lot of cool military midpower stuff.

I have started one of the German Noris Soyuz kits that I got on eBay -but vacuform is clearly NOT my medium.

The ASP and Apogee stuff is cool but not modern. There are a lot of neat scale kits from manufacturers great and small that I would love to build, but again they're not modern rockets. I have a Roachwerks Nike -Hercules stretching my building abilities right now, so I'm as guilt of retro-scaling as the next guy.

And its true I'm not sure how I define "major" manufacturer but I'll define a modern rocket as anything launched in this century.

I thought I was talking about A-D power from Estes/Semroc/Quest that I can find in my hobbyshop of an actual sounding rocket or spacecraft manned or unmanned launched in the last few years. If I'm ten (or 43) and I see a rocket in the news today and I want to build it, I can't, because the rockets in the news today are not being manufactured in kit form. The next time you launch scale, ask yourself when the last time was that somebody actually launched a real one.

When we were kids we wanted the Saturn V 'cause we saw it and it was cool . . . remember?

Scratch-building is cool and perhaps it's separating the men from the boys, so to speak. God knows I've amassed quite a collection of tubes, cones and other pieces in the short time I've been BAR, but I wouldn't mind paying for a level3+ kit where someone had done the math or turned or molded (but not vacufomed) the tricky part for me.

Finally, I'm not dissing (if that is, in fact, a word) the manufacturers, they builld what we buy. I'm just wonderin' why we don't buy recent rockets or are we stuck in the seventies?

Or am I over-thinking this?
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  #9  
Old 04-29-2008, 09:34 AM
banco banco is offline
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I think the Estes Bullpup is still available at various sites. To make it more scale authentic, trim the forward fins slightly and mount them on the nose cone (see picture). This is a fun build, though of course the decals kinda suck.

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Old 04-29-2008, 10:24 AM
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There are way more scale kits available today, and because of the internet they are way easier to locate and purchase, than there were during my youth.

Here is a list of manufacturers currently producing scale kits:

Estes, Quest, Semroc, Roachwerks, Dr. Zooch, Aerospace Specialty Products (ASP), Sirius, The Launch Pad, Sheri's Hot Rockets, True Modeler's Rocket Kits, Apogee Components (Saturns, the Sky kits and Norris Raketen kits), Paul Clark Spacecraft Models (available from Deepsky), Advanced Rocketry Group (ARG), and Neubauer.

Then there are the Mid-power and Hi-Power companies that make scale models:

Aerotech, Madcow, Loc, PML, Q-Modeling, Polecat Aerospace, Cosmodrome.


There are a few reasons current rockets don't inspire much building. Most are pretty boring looking, being basically pencil shaped with strap on boosters, and they lack fins meaning they have to fly with those clear plastic fins we all hate so much. Most of the people building scale rocket models these days are grown men reliving the excitement of protecting the world from Communist Nukes and beating the Ruskies to the moon. Our current space and missile program lacks anything very inspirational. It's hard to blame todays kids for not getting excited about the latest cellphone satellite launch. Thank goodness for the X-Prize contests.
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