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  #1  
Old 12-01-2011, 03:09 PM
Jimid123 Jimid123 is offline
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Smile Completed My Estes K Kit Collection

Hi Everyone, I have been building and flying Model Rockets since 1964 and building and flying High Power Rockets since the early 1990s. This way you know I just don't collect rockets but very much enjoy this hobby. For the past several years I have been trying to find an Estes kit number K-5 Astron Apogee. This one was the first one produced by Estes in 1962/63 and yes this is different from the K-5 Astron Apogee II kit produced from 1964/74. Now that I have added this to my collection of Estes early K kits my collection is now completed. All my kits in my collection are mint and still factory sealed, most are pre-Damon. I thought I would share this with everyone because I'm sure many of use have never seen this kit in its original package. Here are a couple of pics for everyone to enjoy.

Take Care, Jimi
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2011, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimid123
Hi Everyone, I have been building and flying Model Rockets since 1964 and building and flying High Power Rockets since the early 1990s. This way you know I just don't collect rockets but very much enjoy this hobby. For the past several years I have been trying to find an Estes kit number K-5 Astron Apogee. This one was the first one produced by Estes in 1962/63 and yes this is different from the K-5 Astron Apogee II kit produced from 1964/74. Now that I have added this to my collection of Estes early K kits my collection is now completed. All my kits in my collection are mint and still factory sealed, most are pre-Damon. I thought I would share this with everyone because I'm sure many of use have never seen this kit in its original package. Here are a couple of pics for everyone to enjoy.

Take Care, Jimi
I guess you're not gonna open the bag and scan the instructions for us, eh? (j/k)

But could you measure the tube lengths for us, including the clear one? Thanks. And congrats, too!

Doug

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Old 12-01-2011, 04:02 PM
Jimid123 Jimid123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Sams
I guess you're not gonna open the bag and scan the instructions for us, eh? (j/k)

But could you measure the tube lengths for us, including the clear one? Thanks. And congrats, too!

Doug

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Hi Doug, , The booster tube is 2.3/4" The upper stage tube is 6.5" and the clear tube is 2.7/8"

You Take Care, Jimi
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:34 PM
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Hi Doug, , The booster tube is 2.3/4" The upper stage tube is 6.5" and the clear tube is 2.7/8"

You Take Care, Jimi
Thanks, Jimi.

It appears you may have some sort of hybrid here. The payload and booster dimensions are consistent with what I've derived from the Apogee I catalog pictures. (Analysis here.) But your main tube is more like the Apogee II at 6.5" versus 5" from the pics.

I wonder if Estes had already started migrating to the Apogee II when your kit was made.

Doug

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Old 12-01-2011, 06:41 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
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I wonder if we can deduce the design, and the suggested staging method, from the parts.

I see two balsa bulkheads. Is the one at bottom-right bored through, for use as a coupler?

Are there one or two engine blocks? I see one, at least. Two engine blocks would suggest one was used at the rear of the booster. Maybe.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:17 PM
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I wonder if we can deduce the design, and the suggested staging method, from the parts.

I see two balsa bulkheads. Is the one at bottom-right bored through, for use as a coupler?

Are there one or two engine blocks? I see one, at least. Two engine blocks would suggest one was used at the rear of the booster. Maybe.
I wonder about that second balsa block. Obviously, the one is needed to couple the payload to the main airframe. But the other does not look bored thru, although it's not at all clear.

My take has always been there was no aft block in the booster (versus the K-40 Midget, for example, which had one). So that leaves the charcoal-gray ring and the balsa block both forward of the booster motor.

I always assumed tape-together staging. However, this rocket dates back to the earliest days when staging was still iffy. Perhaps there was a block between the two motors. If the one balsa block is bored thru and used as a coupler, it would have been glued into the forward end of the booster. This implies the sustainer motor would have been recessed into the upper stage. This also leaves the paper ring as the sustainer engine block.

If, OTOH, the bored-thru balsa block was used as the sustainer motor block (similar to the Astron Mark which had a bored-thru balsa block), then the paper ring would have been used as an aft block on the booster leaving the motors to suffice as the coupler. And this still implies the sustainer motor is recessed.

Basically, I can't see how they use the one balsa block without it being bored. And I can't see how they used both the balsa block and the paper ring without recessing the sustainer motor.

In my mind (with benefit of time for staging to be perfected) for this rocket, I would have used the paper ring as the sustainer motor block, tape-together staging with the sustainer motor sticking out as the coupler (ala the Midget), and simply not used the other balsa block. Obviously that's not how it was done.

I'm very curious to know what's in those Apogee1 instructions

Doug

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Old 12-01-2011, 08:10 PM
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Is the balsa bulkhead stuck in the clear tube bored out?

The design would only need ONE thrust ring, if the upper engine casing extended rearward about 3/8". IIRC, the two casings would be taped together first, then friction-fit into the sustainer, and then the booster would simply be friction-fit over the booster casing. There is no room for any sort of extra ring within the booster body.

My curiosity is about that "other tube", and whether it is an empty casing used as a push tool, or if it is another thin-wall booster tube. If this is just another booster tube, then what we have is an optional payload capsule, using the second bulkhead. The NC slipped into the top of it.

ADDENDUM: Remember the wording of the catalog -- "Can be flown without payload capsule"... This might have been what Estes intended, using the plain-paper tube when you didn't want to use the clear plastic capsule. You can't fly the rocket without that extra length, it would have been unstable.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:27 PM
Jimid123 Jimid123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
Is the balsa bulkhead stuck in the clear tube bored out?

The design would only need ONE thrust ring, if the upper engine casing extended rearward about 3/8". IIRC, the two casings would be taped together first, then friction-fit into the sustainer, and then the booster would simply be friction-fit over the booster casing. There is no room for any sort of extra ring within the booster body.

My curiosity is about that "other tube", and whether it is an empty casing used as a push tool, or if it is another thin-wall booster tube. If this is just another booster tube, then what we have is an optional payload capsule, using the second bulkhead. The NC slipped into the top of it.

ADDENDUM: Remember the wording of the catalog -- "Can be flown without payload capsule"... This might have been what Estes intended, using the plain-paper tube when you didn't want to use the clear plastic capsule. You can't fly the rocket without that extra length, it would have been unstable.


The extra bulkhead is not bored out. Yes the other tube is an empty casing.

Jimi
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimid123
The extra bulkhead is not bored out. Yes the other tube is an empty casing.

Jimi
Hi, Jimi,

What are all the black bits? Thanks. Doug



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Old 12-01-2011, 09:15 PM
Jimid123 Jimid123 is offline
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Hi, Jimi,

What are all the black bits? Thanks. Doug



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Hi Doug, They Are engine blocks in different sizes.

Jimi

Last edited by Jimid123 : 12-02-2011 at 10:56 AM.
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