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  #1  
Old 05-01-2010, 09:35 AM
azbirds azbirds is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Default Engine clusters

With an engine cluster how do you ignite them?
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  #2  
Old 05-01-2010, 11:17 AM
stefanj stefanj is offline
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You link the igniters together IN PARALLEL, using a special branching ignigtion system add-on called a "clip whip", or simply by wrapping the ignitier ends together.

You WILL need a 12v launch system to ensure that all of the igniters go off in a timely fahion.

For more information:

This PDF is a collection of technical reports from Estes Industries:

http://www.estesrockets.com/images/...ction_TR-TN.pdf

One of the collections is about clustering. Read it!
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2010, 11:32 AM
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RandyT0001 RandyT0001 is offline
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In fig 16 on th left you will see what is referred to as a 'whip clip' that attaches to the clips of the ignigtor wires of the launcher system.

http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/manuals/tr-6.pdf

This tech report will also provide information:

http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/manuals/tir-52.pdf

on how clip whips are used. An important thing to remember is that the electrical launch system has to have enough current to ignite each igniter in each motor. Composite motors take more current to ignite than smaller black powder motors (like Estes, Quest).
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2010, 12:12 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Chapter Six of The Handbook of Model Rocketry by G. Harry Stine & Bill Stine covers the topic of "Ignition and Ignition Systems". Page 228 in the 7th Edition shows the construction of a typical wiring "whip" for a three-engine cluster.

You DO have a copy of The Handbook, right?
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2010, 12:31 PM
RWmarlow RWmarlow is offline
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Have an Idea (it's worked twice) about clustering ....details as it develops
RM
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2010, 01:06 PM
azbirds azbirds is offline
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No I don't have the book yet. I flew rockets in the 70's. My four year old son saw some and the rocket flying is back on. I design all the rockets myself, with the artistic input from my son. I tried a cluster but only one lit, hence the questions. I look forward to being on the board and learning. Thanks for all the input.
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2010, 03:18 PM
RWmarlow RWmarlow is offline
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he local library should have a copy...otherwise most of it is available online...witht he estes ignitor the biggest thing is to have enough amps in the battery...(I have used a 7.5 volt RC car batttery and lit 3 pretty regularly

RM
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  #8  
Old 05-01-2010, 04:21 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azbirds
No I don't have the book yet. I flew rockets in the 70's. My four year old son saw some and the rocket flying is back on. I design all the rockets myself, with the artistic input from my son. I tried a cluster but only one lit, hence the questions. I look forward to being on the board and learning. Thanks for all the input.


Welcome to our asylum, BTW!

ASAP, go grab a copy and work through it. It's a book you really need beside you when you're in a design mood, at least until you're comfortable with all the juicy details. Every rocketry enthusiast should make it a point to get at least one copy.

Have you seen OpenRocket yet? It's a free (Open Source) software package that allows you to work up some basic designs on the computer and test them out before making a commitment in real components.

On the BARCLONE threads, we've used RockSim for nearly every design, and we still recommend it. It's not free ($120), but well worth the price.
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  #9  
Old 05-01-2010, 05:20 PM
BRS Hobbies BRS Hobbies is offline
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The Quest Q2G2 igniters work great for clustering BP motors.

For an inexpensive launcher, I recommend the Quest launch controller and a lantern battery which can be connected to the controller using the Quest external battery connector.

Best regards,
Brian
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  #10  
Old 05-01-2010, 06:29 PM
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Chas Russell Chas Russell is offline
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I concur with Brian's comments. The Quest Q2G2 igniters are the best for clustering, especially the first time. I gave three to a rocketeer at a Dallas (DARS) club launch for his first cluster.
They have longer leads than the standard Estes igniters.

First, they are very sensitive. A standard Estes launch controller with a 6V continutity light will allow enough current to pass to set the Q2G2 off. My homemade controller circs 1980 will also fire them as it is 12V.

As Brian mentioned, the Quest 9V controller will not fire them as it has an audio continuity buzzer that draws more current. An external battery will provide more mpherage for the cluster. Some club controllers, like the ones DARS use, will not fire the Q2G2 igniters on a continuity check.

If BRS Hobbies stock the Q2G2 igniters and the Quest controller, then you should get them. They can also be purchased directly from Quest.

There are several sources on-line about clustering and with the correct equipment, power source, and igniters you can have a lot of fun clustering.

Starting out with the Q2G2 igniters and a suitable launch controller is a very good starting point.

Chas
NAR 9790
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