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  #1  
Old 11-30-2009, 10:52 AM
mikee mikee is offline
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Default Aerotech D9W 24/40 RMS troubles

I recently decided to give the Aerotech D9W-4 24/40 RMS reloads a try, so I bought a pack at my LHS. To make a long story short, In two separate trips to the filed, I attempted to ignite these reloads five times with no success. Each time, the Copperhead igniter lit fine (audible chuff and puff of smoke out the nozzle) but did not start the propellant.

Thinking maybe something was wrong with the reloads, I brought them back to my LHS. They kindly gave me a new pack from a different production lot to try.

So, back to the range with both my 24/40 cases loaded with the new D9W-4s. Incredibly, the Copperhead igniters fired fine but both reloads failed to light just like before.

Some details before you ask :

-Stored reloads in ziplock baggie after opening package
-Reloads prepped the night before launching
-Did not get grease on the propellant
-Filed off any oxidation from the propellant C-slot with an emery board before assembly
-Igniter installed at the correct depth by blocking end of C-slot with small piece of tape
-When replacing igniter in the field after failed ignition, I removed igniter debris and lightly filed soot off C-slot with an emery board
-Outside temperature was around 50 - 55 degrees

Anyone else have trouble with these reloads? I have used E18W and D15T reloads just fine without any issues like this. I don't think it's the temperature since I've used other reloads in this weather.

I’m wondering if I should give the Q2G2 or the First Fire Jr. igniters a try.

Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:26 AM
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GregGleason GregGleason is offline
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Yep, I feel your pain.

BP is easy to light since it takes a tiny spark to get it ignited. APCP ignites at 500+ F, which is why some guys use, shall we say, aggressive burning chemical compounds, to get them going.

I make my own igniters for composites using the QuickDip kit from QuickBurst. My ignition success rate is now over 90%.

Greg
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2009, 12:13 PM
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Shreadvector Shreadvector is offline
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2009, 12:59 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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I have had more trouble with "chuffs" and failures to ignite with D9W 24mm reloads than ANY other AP composite, SU or RMS !
I have always sanded the "C slot" as well.
Not an often used load by me anyway, so i have just switched completely over to the D15T, which ALWAYS ignites easily for me.
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2009, 01:34 PM
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Pem Tech Pem Tech is offline
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A second vote for Magnelite.
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2009, 01:42 PM
mikee mikee is offline
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Thanks for the helpful links. I've been to the Rocketflite site before and was intruiged, so it's good to hear that people have had success with them. I may give them a shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I have had more trouble with "chuffs" and failures to ignite with D9W 24mm reloads than ANY other AP composite, SU or RMS !

Hmmm, so I'm not the only one that has struggled with these.

I wonder why the D9W is problematic? Maybe the smaller propellant slug doesn't have enough surface area to ignite reliably...

It's irritating that Aerotech will sell you a reload that is this difficult to ignite with their own igniters!
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2009, 01:54 PM
Green Dragon Green Dragon is offline
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I have personally never had any issues with the D9 reloads, , even old oxidized ones ( properly sanded first ) .

always use the small magnelite igniters. ( wire wrap wire size ) .

not sure why copperheads should nto work, possibly burns too fast , hence just chuffs out.. need more slag / slower burn to light em up.
solar igniter with an old sure-shot wick would also be a good alternative , if you still have any wick

D9 is one of my fave motors, not flown any in a while though, after one cato'd ( forward bh blowby, possibly my fault ) and toasted my vintage Dark Star

have fun, wish we were still flying in NY

~ AL
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2009, 09:19 PM
PaulK PaulK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee

I’m wondering if I should give the Q2G2 or the First Fire Jr. igniters a try.

Any thoughts?
I wouldn't recommend the Q2G2, I'm 0 for 3 trying these on D9/D15 motors - I've gone back to copperheads after trying them. The igniters burn, but the motors don't start. I suspect the amount of pyrogen is just too small to get the AP going. And yes, I sand the C slots first.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:47 AM
mikee mikee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulK
I wouldn't recommend the Q2G2, I'm 0 for 3 trying these on D9/D15 motors - I've gone back to copperheads after trying them. The igniters burn, but the motors don't start. I suspect the amount of pyrogen is just too small to get the AP going.

That's good to know, and I bet you're right about the Q2G2 igniters. I was just looking at them yesterday at the hobby shop and thinking that the pyrogen tip looked awfully small for igniting composites.

The FF Jr. igniters seemed to have about the same amount of pyrogen as a copperhead, but I picked up a pack just to try them out. At $9 for a 3-pack, I wont be doing that very often!
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2009, 08:48 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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The Q2G2 work in my experience with the D15, but would work better if you dipped them in pyrogen. The pyrogen I like to use is ground up material from firework "sparklers" mixed with nitrocellulose lacquer (nitrate dope) available in small bottles as "clear nail polish" or in cans at decent local hobby shops as "Sig or Brodak nitrate dope" in the aircraft section.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
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