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  #31  
Old 09-24-2007, 01:23 PM
tfischer tfischer is offline
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Originally Posted by BatPlane
It'd also be better for the girls to do it all themselves. However, this isn't practical. The goal is to get them together with the girls doing the majority of the work (they are).

The girls are going to use yellow glue for fillets and white glue for the shock cord. I'm hopeful the yellow glue fillets will add enough strength to the fins. The engine mount assemblies were all done with plain 'ol white elmer's glue.


Isn't there a way you could dedicate (part of) one more evening to this? It just seems a shame that the one thing that's probably most important (placement of the fins) is not going to be done by the students. It seems like that's the equivalant of teaching someone woodworking by having them cut out all the pieces, but then you nail/glue them together yourself and then they come back and do the finishing. It's just a very important step that they won't be part of...

Not trying to knock what you're doing, though. Hope it all works out for you...

-Tim
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  #32  
Old 09-24-2007, 02:44 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Originally Posted by BatPlane
I knew I was stirring up a hornet's nest with the super-glue thing.

Yes, it might have been better to have used simpler models but I'm way past that...we're using the Bull Pups. It's too late...my bad.

Yes, it'd be better to use the yellow glue instead of super glue on the fins. It'd also be better for the girls to do it all themselves. However, this isn't practical due to a limited amount of time. The goal is to get them together with the girls doing the majority of the work (they are) over 3 meetings.

The girls are going to use yellow glue for fillets and white glue for the shock cord. I'm hopeful the yellow glue fillets will add enough strength to the fins. The engine mount assemblies were all done with plain 'ol white elmer's glue.

It's not ideal, not perfect, but nobody's getting frustrated so there's no problem. No, we don't have enough time but it should be a happy, fun experience for them.

Yeah, I'm imagining a bunch of pink bull pup missles...cool!

By the way....I didn't see SQUAT in the instructions about exactly what type glue to use except the plastic cement on the tail cone part. (I also realize the instructions pre-date super-glue)



The Bullpup instructions need to be updated.
Long ago the glue was changed over from white glue (runny) to carpenters glue ( yellow)along tme ago,except in special cases, such as using plastic parts or high powered Estes rockets.

Not all packaging reflects the change over, carpenters glue is great for fillets, and, if a fin gets broken off, chances are the fillet will come off as well.

I just repaired two fins on a rocket damaged in transit.

I usually use two layers of carpenters glue fillets, you need to fill in all the spaces and make sure the fillets are smooth, and you can sand the fillets as well.


It was mentioned about a paint scheme, maybe it's Barbie against Bratz, pink with flowers, that would make for an interesting Bullpup .........
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  #33  
Old 09-24-2007, 05:21 PM
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Batplane,

Someone more intelligent than I (or is it me) once said "The idea is to have fun". If you and the girls are having fun, who cares if you used Bull Pups instead of Baby Berthas.....who cares if you used CA instead of white/yellow glue......who cares if you are gluing the fins on to speed things up. The important thing is, you are all having fun. We do care that you POST THE PICTURES! Be really great to see what these girls dream up for paint schemes. My niece built a Wizard, painted it pink and stuck cat stickers all over it. Still flys great and she enjoys coming out and flying it. Almost lost it once when she wanted to put a parachute on it instead of a streamer....I told her....but you know how young uns are.....luckly her dad came that day and I didn't have to recover it....missed the tree by 10 feet
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  #34  
Old 09-24-2007, 05:40 PM
Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
Batplane,

Someone more intelligent than I (or is it me) once said "The idea is to have fun". If you and the girls are having fun, who cares if you used Bull Pups instead of Baby Berthas.....who cares if you used CA instead of white/yellow glue......who cares if you are gluing the fins on to speed things up. The important thing is, you are all having fun.

Ah, thanks for typing these sentiments for me. Prevents me from having to do so.
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  #35  
Old 09-24-2007, 08:17 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
Batplane,

Someone more intelligent than I (or is it me) once said "The idea is to have fun". If you and the girls are having fun, who cares if you used Bull Pups instead of Baby Berthas.....who cares if you used CA instead of white/yellow glue......who cares if you are gluing the fins on to speed things up. The important thing is, you are all having fun. We do care that you POST THE PICTURES! Be really great to see what these girls dream up for paint schemes. My niece built a Wizard, painted it pink and stuck cat stickers all over it. Still flys great and she enjoys coming out and flying it. Almost lost it once when she wanted to put a parachute on it instead of a streamer....I told her....but you know how young uns are.....luckly her dad came that day and I didn't have to recover it....missed the tree by 10 feet




SAFETY,using the proper materials (glue) assembly techniques, the rocket that is geared to the age group and skills.

YES, the hobby is about having fun while learning, but, on the other hand, doing it SAFELY, so the participant can return to enjoy it again.

I know, having written many instructions, and thinking like a kid would. I could have built many kits by cutting corners from experience, but, the instructions need to be wriutten in a proper manner, keeping safety in mind.

When a youngster gets discouraged, they do not continue in the hobby.

We all haven't become BAR's by assuming anything.

The wholr purpose of this forum is to exchange ideas from those that have been in the hobby and relate our experiences so that newbeeis continue in the hobby.

Age level, experience and time constraights must be taken into consideration.

Only building the rocket halfway (minus fins and LL) doesn't give the participant the WHOLE rocketry experience.

I'm sure that the girls have enjoyed their rocket building greatly and had fun in the process, and who cares if the Bullpup goes from white to pink and has flower decals.

Now, launching as a group will complete the experience.

I wish all the participants great success and we all are looking forward to those photos and their smiling faces...............then, it will all be worthwhile.

Good luck and
Best wishes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #36  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:01 PM
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barone barone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Doctor
SAFETY,using the proper materials (glue) assembly techniques, the rocket that is geared to the age group and skills.

YES, the hobby is about having fun while learning, but, on the other hand, doing it SAFELY, so the participant can return to enjoy it again.

I know, having written many instructions, and thinking like a kid would. I could have built many kits by cutting corners from experience, but, the instructions need to be wriutten in a proper manner, keeping safety in mind.

When a youngster gets discouraged, they do not continue in the hobby.

We all haven't become BAR's by assuming anything.

The wholr purpose of this forum is to exchange ideas from those that have been in the hobby and relate our experiences so that newbeeis continue in the hobby.

Age level, experience and time constraights must be taken into consideration.

Only building the rocket halfway (minus fins and LL) doesn't give the participant the WHOLE rocketry experience.

I'm sure that the girls have enjoyed their rocket building greatly and had fun in the process, and who cares if the Bullpup goes from white to pink and has flower decals.

Now, launching as a group will complete the experience.

I wish all the participants great success and we all are looking forward to those photos and their smiling faces...............then, it will all be worthwhile.

Good luck and
Best wishes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doc..

Safety isn't an issue here, at least not from what I've seen posted, except for the CA that Batplane says he's using because he doesn't want to have them (the girls) glue their fingers together.

Was there a better rocket to use for this group build with first time builders? Yep. We told him that. And that probably leads to the fact that now he's doing part of the builds for the girls. Yep, from our perspective, it takes away from both the learning and building experience since we are BARs. But, then again, if the girls develop an interest in model rocketry, they'll pick those up. For now, they just don't know what they are missing. This was an ambitious task......still is (they ain't in the air yet ). My BAR hat is off to Batplane for making the attempt . Our comments couldn't help much for this project since it seems the wheels were in motion prior to posting for help. But, I'm sure with the information he's gotten from the forum, as well as the experience he's gained from working with the girls, he may have a different approach for the next project.

So, Batplane, what kind of launch system are you planning on using ? Sounds like you've got a few weeks to figure out how you want to handle those. And don't forget to take lots of pictures. Build session pictures are good too, but we really like to see them launches .
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  #37  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:32 PM
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ScaleNut ScaleNut is offline
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I tack fins on with ca all the time, followed by yellow glue fillets.

there is absolutly nothing wrong or dangerous with that methoed
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  #38  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaleNut
I tack fins on with ca all the time, followed by yellow glue fillets.

there is absolutly nothing wrong or dangerous with that methoed

Yep...but I don't think I'd want to hand out some CA to some kids on their first build....not unless I've got a bunch of CA remover I still get CA all over. I think everything is fine and then, all of a sudden, I can't pick up something that somehow got CAed in place.....and it's not even near where I'm using the CA
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  #39  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:43 PM
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I see ,yes that would be a potential disaster.
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  #40  
Old 09-24-2007, 10:59 PM
BatPlane BatPlane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
Doc..

Safety isn't an issue here, at least not from what I've seen posted, except for the CA that Batplane says he's using because he doesn't want to have them (the girls) glue their fingers together.

Was there a better rocket to use for this group build with first time builders? Yep. We told him that. And that probably leads to the fact that now he's doing part of the builds for the girls. Yep, from our perspective, it takes away from both the learning and building experience since we are BARs. But, then again, if the girls develop an interest in model rocketry, they'll pick those up. For now, they just don't know what they are missing. This was an ambitious task......still is (they ain't in the air yet ). My BAR hat is off to Batplane for making the attempt . Our comments couldn't help much for this project since it seems the wheels were in motion prior to posting for help. But, I'm sure with the information he's gotten from the forum, as well as the experience he's gained from working with the girls, he may have a different approach for the next project.

So, Batplane, what kind of launch system are you planning on using ? Sounds like you've got a few weeks to figure out how you want to handle those. And don't forget to take lots of pictures. Build session pictures are good too, but we really like to see them launches .


This is more about a dad trying to show his daughter's troop the fun of model rocketry than anything else. It's a familiarization and part of their Aerospace badge. I asked my daughter about the fins...she said the girls won't care if I did it and it'd save time, no problem. Hey...straight from an 11 year old, what can I say?

Here's the reality...the CA glue (yes, I do have acetone in case of disaster) isn't my main concern. What's gonna happen with that, anyway? A fin might come off when it lands? Get Serious! If a fin rips off the body tube upon launch and causes a hazard, I'd be pretty surprised. I've never seen that happen after hundreds of launches.

The real hazard is wadding and/or a chute packed in too tightly or a too tight nosecone. I've seen rockets fail to separate and bury themselves 8" deep in packed soil! That could be deadly! Especially with the top-heavy clay packed bull pups.

Safety is my concern and each rocket will be inspected by me to ensure the recovery system deploys.

On building a well-built rocket, the reality is that half of them are going to get lost so it's probably not an issue. This is about spending time with the kids. I know I'm not doing it perfectly but a lot of these girls do not have dads around to help them.

The launch plan? Well, we're going to pack the wadding and chutes together in unison. Then, we're going to install the engines (A or B) together. Then they're lining up and we're going to launch them one right after another with a single launch pad.

When they're recovered, the girls will know how to re-pack them for the next launch so hopefully it'll continue until they get at least 2 launches in.

I stand by the Bull Pup choice, by the way. There were enough complicated steps in there to merit a real sense of accomplishment for those kids....even if I am robbing them of the joy of installing the fins.

Thanks for the input, guys I actually do appreciate it. I know yellow glue is best for fins & wish we could get another meeting in to take the 15 minutes required for each fin but there's no way. The purpose of the initial post was the concern about the lack of engine hooks. Looks like that's not an issue.

I'll try to get some photos but probably shouldn't post the kids' faces. I think I can get one or two of the Moms to take care of that. Stay tuned.
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