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  #1  
Old 03-21-2013, 07:31 AM
ben awes ben awes is offline
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Default International Orange? Original Estes Colors

I am looking for insight about original Estes colors. Estes makes recommendations for painting schemes in their instructions for all their rockets. I am trying to determine the original intended colors for the Mars Lander. One question - did Estes ever change the recommended color? I have a set of early instructions for Mars Lander (though I do not know what year they are from) and they instruct to paint part of the Mars Lander "International Orange".

The second question is what color is that? The most famous International Orange is the color used on the Golden Gate Bridge, which has been the same for 70 years. This color is sort of a darker rusty orange. Actually this color looks like photos of Mars (of course, in 1968 we did not have photos of Mars!). There also is an International Orange that was apparently used "in the aerospace industry" - which would make sense as the one to go with except that is too bright and does not look like what Estes used. Then there is one that is "used in engineering" - but it is very red. Or, was there some other readily available paint on the market called International Orange? Did kids use spray paint in 1968? Wouldn't Estes recommend colors that would have been easy for kids in the 60's and 70's to get?

Here are a couple links on the color:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_orange

http://encycolorpedia.com/search?q=international+orange

Does anyone know any history around this Estes color? I would love to know the original intention of the minds over in Penrose in the late 60's.

Thanks for your help,

Ben
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2013, 09:06 AM
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jeffyjeep jeffyjeep is offline
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I've built a few ML's over the years and my favorite scheme has been to have my wife paint the legs by hand with Model Master Guards Red and the cardstock parts of the legs with Model Master International Orange. She then paints the feet and the faux shocks with metallic silver.

The last one was so long ago that I don't have the photo with me, but I can dig it up on one of my "sticks" when I get home from Newton, KS.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:35 AM
ben awes ben awes is offline
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Jeff, I would love to see photos of your Mars Landers (and I would love my wife to paint for me!). I have produced the first 3X Mars Lander kit for sale and continue to research to provide the most accurate info possible. Thanks for the info. I also built the Mars Lander back in the 70's. I wonder how long the Model Masters International Orange has been in their line?

Thanks,
Ben Awes
Colossus Rockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyjeep
I've built a few ML's over the years and my favorite scheme has been to have my wife paint the legs by hand with Model Master Guards Red and the cardstock parts of the legs with Model Master International Orange. She then paints the feet and the faux shocks with metallic silver.

The last one was so long ago that I don't have the photo with me, but I can dig it up on one of my "sticks" when I get home from Newton, KS.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:55 AM
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jeffyjeep jeffyjeep is offline
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Well, the "Vixen" found the photos and emailed them to me. Note the contrast of the Intl. Orange with the Guards Red on the legs of the ML.

My favorite example of Intl. Orange is on the fins of this 1:30 scale MLJ. The "Vixen" said the area was too large to paint by hand--but I proved her wrong and did it myself.
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:46 AM
ben awes ben awes is offline
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VERY NICE! Wow, you're into it! I have sent Testors some quesitons about when International Orange was first introduced into their line. We'll see. I imagine that you have the right color. When was the first time you built the ML? Did you use Inter Orange back then as well?

Do you do High Power as well? The ML was my favorite as a kid and I HAD to have a high power version, but no one was make a well detailed high power kit, so I did it myself. I have built and launched one, which had a parachute deployment failure, and now i am onto my second.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEGKsbPBg18

One of my kits is being built by a guy who is doing a good job of documenting the build on The Rocketry Forums.

Do you still fly yours?

Ben

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyjeep
Well, the "Vixen" found the photos and emailed them to me. Note the contrast of the Intl. Orange with the Guards Red on the legs of the ML.

My favorite example of Intl. Orange is on the fins of this 1:30 scale MLJ. The "Vixen" said the area was too large to paint by hand--but I proved her wrong and did it myself.
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:52 AM
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turbofireball turbofireball is offline
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My understanding of Estes color recommendations from the 60s and early 70s is that many were based on what existed in Pactra Butyrate dope colors. If you look at catalogs from that time period, Estes sold International Orange Butyrate dope in a re-labeled Pactra bottle. The Enamel paint they sold was from Kyrlon, and they don't seem to list an International Orange color.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:00 AM
ben awes ben awes is offline
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Thank-you. that is great info. I suppose that this product no longer exists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofireball
My understanding of Estes color recommendations from the 60s and early 70s is that many were based on what existed in Pactra Butyrate dope colors. If you look at catalogs from that time period, Estes sold International Orange Butyrate dope in a re-labeled Pactra bottle. The Enamel paint they sold was from Kyrlon, and they don't seem to list an International Orange color.
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  #8  
Old 03-21-2013, 11:24 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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Estes International Orange I believe was Pactra Aero Gloss Dope Cub Orange way back in the day. I still have two half-pints but it has not existed in a LONG time. I think Brodak now offers the color though if you want dope.
I have always just used Testors Dark Red for the entire leg (except the silver shock and landing pad) of the 6 Mars Landers ( 4 Estes including a pre-damon kit, and two Semroc) I have built the past 35 odd years, except for the first one which used Aero Gloss Fokker red.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:40 AM
ben awes ben awes is offline
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Thanks - more great info. I looked at the Brodak colors and I can't tell which orange would be the match to the International. If you have two half-pints - I imagine you would not want to sell them (is the paint still good in them?), but would you paint a 3" x 3" square for me so I could color match?

Thanks for your consideration in advance!

Ben
Colossus Rockets

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Estes International Orange I believe was Pactra Aero Gloss Dope Cub Orange way back in the day. I still have two half-pints but it has not existed in a LONG time. I think Brodak now offers the color though if you want dope.
I have always just used Testors Dark Red for the entire leg (except the silver shock and landing pad) of the 6 Mars Landers ( 4 Estes including a pre-damon kit, and two Semroc) I have built the past 35 odd years, except for the first one which used Aero Gloss Fokker red.
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2013, 11:52 AM
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GregGleason GregGleason is offline
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For those of you who want to view the 3x Mars Lander build:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showth...3X-Build-Thread

Greg
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