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  #11  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:06 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
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Yeah IMHO if they can't do better than those stupid "starters" they shouldn't put in anything at all...

Sell nichrome and dip to assemble your own. Course that's asking too much for the "RTF" crowd.

Meh, whatever floats yer boat.

I have a solid supply of of the old ignitors, including a bunch of the Q2G2's from Quest that I bought a few years back, so I don't have to worry about the junk "starters" for a good while, but I DO need to get some dip or stuff to dip them with (nail polish and gunpowder or sparkler dust sounds good) to make the starters worth bothering with...

Or just toss em in the trash where they belong and get a big Quick-dip kit with the wires and dip and all...

Later! OL J R
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:52 PM
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Getting back to the OP - I haven't flown anything yet this spring so I don't know if there is a problem with newer starters.

I've had nearly perfect success with the new Estes starters. For me they don't work any worse or any better than the pyrogen igniters. I witnessed a large Cub Scout pack have a 99% success rate with the new starters one year, and a lot of failures the next year. I traced the cause of the failures to operator error (new Den Leaders and parents) and after a quick training session everyone was using them without a hitch.

I believe that igniter placement is very critical even with pyrogen. Not saying an expert-level flier like Bill is doing this, but I've noticed that inexperienced fliers tend to install the starter head against the wall of the nozzle without actually touching the propellant. It's usually not firmly holding the starter head against the propellant when installing the starter plug. The starter plugs can displace the head of the starter so that it is no longer touching the propellant too.

I also believe that you don't need some sort of pyrogen to start a blackpowder motor. I like to show others how "burnt" starter leads can be reused. Carefully bent and installed, bare nichrome wire works 100%. But I still prefer pyrogen-tipped starters.
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2018, 03:12 PM
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I haven't noticed any difference in the failure rate between the old and new igniters at our club's monthly launches. At least with a big, 12V battery, the new "starters" work fine.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2018, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
I believe that igniter placement is very critical even with pyrogen. Not saying an expert-level flier like Bill is doing this, but I've noticed that inexperienced fliers tend to install the starter head against the wall of the nozzle without actually touching the propellant. It's usually not firmly holding the starter head against the propellant when installing the starter plug. The starter plugs can displace the head of the starter so that it is no longer touching the propellant too.


Another common issue I have seen is twisting the igniter when installing the plug causing the leads to short.

Quote:
I also believe that you don't need some sort of pyrogen to start a blackpowder motor. I like to show others how "burnt" starter leads can be reused. Carefully bent and installed, bare nichrome wire works 100%. But I still prefer pyrogen-tipped starters.


Chris Michielssen (hcmbanjo) was able to use a single MicroMaxx igniter for something like two dozen launches.
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2018, 06:08 PM
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I've been using them since they came out and have not experienced a failure rate greater than the older Solars. But I'm using a 12V car battery. My last launch was 16 out of 17, all new, white Starters and the single failure was my own, as I twisted the leads together.

I'm going to try a cluster launch for my Yuri's Night launch next month in my newly-built Scrambler with a payload bay from Sandman. I'm going to have four eggs, Yuri, Al, Gherman and Gus and go for my NARTrek cluster and payload flights. I intend to use white Starters. Then we'll make post-launch Huevos Rancheros (scrambled eggs, salsa, and chorizo sausage mixed together and served with tortillas).

Way better than Russian food.
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Last edited by MarkB. : 03-19-2018 at 07:17 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2018, 06:34 PM
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It doesn't take much to be WAY better than Russian food.
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2018, 09:30 AM
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The clear version seems slightly slower to ignite than the old black pyrogen, but it is reliable for me if proper prep is done.

I hold the dipped tip to protect the bridge and slightly separate the parallel portion of the wires. I make sure they stay separated when I insert the plug, but I also make sure they don't get pushed wider by the plug because it will break the bridge. I've always done it that way even with the old black pyrogen, thanks to a couple of misfires way back when Solar igniters first came out and I realized I was getting a dead short on the leads. Prep takes a few extra seconds, but it gives me near 100% reliability. I'd say absolute 100% but I don't always notice a broken bridge from the factory unless the pyrogen or dip is also damaged.
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