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  #11  
Old 01-01-2017, 06:00 PM
K'Tesh's Avatar
K'Tesh K'Tesh is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
This seems like an exercise in FUTILITY at best.
Quibbling over 25 THOUSANDTHS of an inch on fin dimensions for a HOBBY rocket?
C'mon noww.
That's being very SHELDON-esque.


It's MY autism, and MY sim.

This is what I do to keep me in the hobby until I can score the materials needed to build what I have, and get building here in China.

And before someone says come home to the US, I'll remind them that at this point, I go back to the US, I'd be homeless in under a week. I can't live with my mom or dad, as they live too far from work centers, and my sister's house is too small to accommodate her family and me for long. THAT and I don't have the work experience in my field needed to get me a decent paying job... Sure I could land a job as a volunteer... but without two years teaching experience, I don't have the minimum requirements for a decent paying position. I have no cash, and no savings. That was all burned up in going to school (about 19K) and getting here (about 2K). Oh, and I have student loans to pay. And before anyone suggests changing jobs, I'll remind them that I did, but I'm only just getting started in the new one.
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2017, 03:57 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
Carl always seemed pretty fanatical about making faithful reproductions. How does the Semroc Bluebird Zero differ from the Estes version?


I finally have the answer when it comes to the fins. I have been working with Randy Boadway, and I've been given the file for the laser cut fins for the Semroc BBZ. I have also purchased an Estes BBZ and now have a scan of the fins.



Semroc's Retro Reproduction fins are curved on the tips of the fins, where Estes are not.

I know that there are those here that accuse me of bashing Carl, but I never have and NEVER will. What he did was different (slightly). They weren't "WRONG", they were different. They were not an exact match to the Estes product, and when I am simulating an Estes product (or cloning it), or making a sim of a Semroc product, I want to be as accurate as possible. That is why I needed the Estes fins scanned.

Oh, and wanting to do something right isn't being "SHELDON-esque". It is just wanting to do something right.

Now, it's 4 am in the morning... I'm calling it a day.

Nutz... I forgot... The name "Blue Bird Zero" in the Estes kit is white. Semroc's is black.
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Last edited by K'Tesh : 10-26-2017 at 04:14 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2017, 05:10 PM
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Gus Gus is offline
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K'Tesh,

The kit you bought, which version was it? Black hangtag or Rainbow hangtag?

Let me say this again, my memory of Carl is that he did everything possible to make his version of a kit as exact to the exemplar as he could. If the Semroc BBZ has fins with curved edges, I'm betting the version of the kit Carl copied had curved edges.
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  #14  
Old 10-26-2017, 06:03 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
K'Tesh,

The kit you bought, which version was it? Black hangtag or Rainbow hangtag?

Let me say this again, my memory of Carl is that he did everything possible to make his version of a kit as exact to the exemplar as he could. If the Semroc BBZ has fins with curved edges, I'm betting the version of the kit Carl copied had curved edges.


Rainbow.
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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  #15  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:50 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is online now
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Ok... A few more hours of sleep in me.

While I believe that Carl did try to do things like you say Steve, I think he was also trying not to push things too far with the Retro Repro line of kits by making exact (external) clones. Thus the difference in the shape of the aforementioned Semroc OMEGA, and the BBZ as I've been able to prove to myself with my own samples/resources.

In every photo that I can remember seeing of the original Estes BBZ, and the few originals I've seen (including my very own step-brother's) the fins' tips were angled, and not curved, unless there's some kind of damage involved. I highly doubt that between the time period of the black hang tag, and the rainbow hang tag, that Estes changed the design to alter the shape of the fin. I'd welcome incontrovertible photographic evidence to the otherwise.

To easy your mind, I will now see if I can turn up any images of an unbuilt, black hang tagged, Estes BBZ that shows the fins either loose, or clearly in the matrix.
__________________
.
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.

Last edited by K'Tesh : 10-26-2017 at 11:15 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-27-2017, 12:36 PM
jdbectec jdbectec is offline
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I don't have a dog in this fight but FWIW the plans on the Jim Z sight have a tracing of the fins apparently taken off a built model. The Estes instructions direct you to round off all the fin edges but the root. If one were to do this the corners of the fins would be slightly rounded off,as in the tracing. If one had only that information available one would assume the fin tips were rounded off. Perhaps a customer wanted a lasercut set of BBZ fins and that's all Carl had to go by. Also the Semroc instructions tell you to round only the leading and trailing edges leaving the others flat.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2017, 03:03 PM
mj.swanson mj.swanson is offline
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I just finished building a Semroc BBZ and to me the more annoying thing than the fins being rounded is that the "Blue Bird Zero" decal is black instead of white like it was on the original. Also, this version only has two black stripes to place ahead of the smaller fins whereas the original had three. Overall it's a very nice quality kit, but wish decals were the same as the original Estes version.
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2017, 04:26 PM
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mwtoelle mwtoelle is offline
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Unfortunately, Semroc does not have the ability to print white decals. With the old Alps printers dying off, printers that have the capability to print white are out of reach for many small businesses. The other alternative would be the silkscreen process, which was used by many companies that needed to have decals made before computerized methods became commonplace.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2017, 06:17 AM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mj.swanson
Also, this version only has two black stripes to place ahead of the smaller fins whereas the original had three. Overall it's a very nice quality kit, but wish decals were the same as the original Estes version.

I caught that too... I have talked to Randy about it. I have been told that the next time they do a run of them that will be corrected, and the blue name decal will likely be omitted.

Another issue with the decals is the size of them. The Estes decals are larger than the Semroc versions of them. I don't think that they will charge that.
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Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).

"The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack."
"The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."


Launching is Optional... Landing? That Depends on Trees.
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