Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Golden Age of Model Rocketry > Model Rocket History
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:46 PM
Vanel Vanel is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 878
Default Significant events in clustering and staging...

I am scheduled to give a talk on clustering and staging, and would like to include a brief history. Things like

First cluster kit (Estes Ranger?)
First two stage kit (?)
First 3 stage kit (?)
First application of new technology (solar igniters, flashbulb ignition, flash pan use, etc.)

Also anything you feel would make such a talk more interesting.

Thanks much!
__________________
Up next:
Under construction:
Under repair:
In finishing: Centuri Sabre clone
In primer:
In paint:
Ready for decals:

Bill Cooke
NAR #31312
TRA #19705
SAM #0001
Huntsville, AL

My rocket blog
My rocket fleet
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-04-2013, 09:58 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 2,847
Default

You might check out the early Estes technical reports.

The multi-staging one is reprinted here:

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...an/esttech.html

Clustering report from 1963:

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/pubs/..._Estes_TR-6.pdf

The early Estes, Coaster, and Centuri catalogs will help you determine the "first kit" milestones. The first multi-stage kit was likely the Apogee (no "II"). Not sure if Estes or Centuri introduced the first three-stager.
__________________
NAR #27085 - Oregon Rocketry - SAM
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:29 PM
Royatl's Avatar
Royatl Royatl is offline
SPEV/Orion wrangler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,645
Default

early editions of The Handbook Of Model Rocketry (and probably an Olde Rocketeer column in Model Rocketry Magazine or two), talk about how the early Colorado rocketeers discovered that three motors could fit into a paper towel roll. And how Del Hitch figured out how to get three or more motors ignited in 1958. And then how Honest Ivan (a seven motor rocket) was launched (one of those Olde Rocketeer columns went into more detail about that). And how there was a standard booster with three motors where you just mounted any single stage rocket on top (by sliding its fins into slots).

All of this was probably well before the Estes Ranger.
__________________
Roy
nar12605
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:33 PM
Royatl's Avatar
Royatl Royatl is offline
SPEV/Orion wrangler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,645
Default

As for Flashbulb Cluster Ignition, I was there when John Langford developed it in 1970. I think flashbulbs had been used with mercury switches and jetex wick or FSI's thermalite for igniting upper stages, but I'm fairly sure John was the first to match them up with Centuri SureShot sticks for clusters.
__________________
Roy
nar12605
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-11-2013, 08:31 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,507
Default

Don't forget parallel staging and vented gap staging, *both* of which are illustrated and discussed in G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry." Vented gap staging is similar to Centuri's "Pass-port staging," except that the gap staged lower stage's vents are *never* covered, and the lower stage (which can be quite long, for scale appearance) can have its motor as much as 12" away from the upper stage's motor. Also:

Parallel staging is a special application of clustering, and it can also be combined with regular series staging (with both butt-joined and gap-staged upper stages). The Estes technical report on clustering shows a "three-motors-across" clustered booster (one or both of whose outboard tubes uses a short-delay motor that pops out a streamer, while the center motor uses a zero-delay and ignites a butt-joined second stage). In addition:

Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" has a schematic-type drawing of a rather similar parallel-staged model rocket, but its short-burning side boosters "peel away" to deploy streamers or parachutes while the long-burning, central sustainer motor keeps firing to continue to accelerate the main rocket. Such a model could also have a butt-joined (or a gap-staged) series-staged upper stage that would be lit by the sustainer motor (as long as it is a zero-delay motor). Competition Model Rockets' "Marcus" strap-on parallel-staged boosters were used (among other applications) as parallel-staged boosters on Estes' two-stage (series-staged) "Sea Strike D" model. Stine's book also has a photo of Pat Artis' unusual parallel staged rocket--he placed the "peel-away" boosters (which looked like front-motored boost-gliders' motor pods) *up front* near the model's nose (to move its Center of Gravity forward), with the sustainer motor mounted in the model's tail in the usual way. And:

Royatl wrote: "And how there was a standard booster with three motors where you just mounted any single stage rocket on top (by sliding its fins into slots)."

Yes, that design (which used a cluster of three 18 mm booster motors mounted inside a paper towel tube [BT-60 size] airframe) appeared way back in the First Edition (published in 1963, if memory serves) of Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry." That "generic first stage" (the terms "booster" and "sustainer" are only correctly applied to parallel staged rockets, regardless of whether the booster and the sustainer are *physically* in series, as in the WAC Corporal, Aerobee, Arcon, and Iris--and I'm not saying that you made this mistake) didn't even use a stuffer tube to direct the hot particles into the upper stage's motor, if I recall correctly--that would have made for some sooty upper stages! :-)
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-11-2013, 12:12 PM
sandman's Avatar
sandman sandman is offline
Custom Cone, Kit & Decal Maker
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Way North of Detroit
Posts: 5,048
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanel
I am scheduled to give a talk on clustering and staging, and would like to include a brief history. Things like

First cluster kit (Estes Ranger?)
First two stage kit (?)
First 3 stage kit (?)
First application of new technology (solar igniters, flashbulb ignition, flash pan use, etc.)

Also anything you feel would make such a talk more interesting.

Thanks much!


As far as kits go, the first 2 stage was probably the Apogee II

http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/k-05.htm

Not sure when the Centuri Black Widow came out.

http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/kb-6.htm

The first 3 stage , more than likely, was the Farside.

http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/k-12.htm
__________________
"I'm a sandman. I've never killed anyone. I terminate runners when their time is up." Logan from "Logan's Run"

http://sandmandecals.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-11-2013, 12:24 PM
Chas Russell's Avatar
Chas Russell Chas Russell is offline
Retired Missile Technician
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,076
Default

The Astron Apogee was apparently introduce in the 1963 catalog and superceded the next year by the Astron Apogee II. The Astron Farside and Farside-X were also introduced in the 1964 catalog.
AMROCS has an Omega three stager, but I only have a 1967 catalog.

This is a wonderful reference site for the Estes kits:

http://vintageestesrockets.com



Chas
__________________
Charles Russell, MSgt,USAF (ret.)
NAR 9790, Lvl 1
SAM "Balls Three"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-11-2013, 01:04 PM
Earl's Avatar
Earl Earl is offline
Apollo Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,893
Default

The Centuri Black Widow was in the '62 catalog.

The Aero-Dyne, a three stager (predecessor to the T-Bird) was in their '64 catalog and I think it might have been in the '63 catalog, but not sure (both these were just checked on on the Ninfinger site, which does not have a '63 catalog).


Earl
__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-11-2013, 02:17 PM
jeffyjeep's Avatar
jeffyjeep jeffyjeep is offline
Old Submariner
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Home of Wayne & Garth
Posts: 7,760
Default

How interesting! I'm currenty working a kit that employs both clustering and staging--the Semroc PSC Infinity.
A rear thrust ring contained 2 engine cluster in the booster, and a top thrust ring friction fit 2 engine cluster in the sustainer, PLUS since the booster "breathes" from the rear, is it considered vented staging?
__________________
Never trust an atom. They make up everything.

4 out of 3 people struggle with math.

Chemically, alcohol IS a solution.

NAR# 94042
SAM# 0078
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-11-2013, 06:31 PM
mwtoelle's Avatar
mwtoelle mwtoelle is offline
Flying since 1977
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 452
Default

I would not consider the PSC Infinity to have a vented booster, because you need to tape the booster/upper stage pairs together. I believe the reason for the holes in the booster centering are to lighten the weight of the booster and to help deploy the booster's streamer. The PSC Infinity flies pretty well, but the booster does not tumble, hence the included streamer. It stages pretty low with B6-0s in the booster.
__________________
'Til next time,

Mike Toelle

NAR 31692 L1

SAM 0373
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:10 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024