Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Scale & Sport Scale Rocketry
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-02-2016, 10:58 PM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
Surfrajettes Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: El Paso
Posts: 1,113
Default Hermes or Wasserfall

Comrades:

Does anybody have or know where I might find a drawing or information detailing the differences between the Hermes Rocket as launched at White Sands and the German Wasserfall on which it was based?

I know the upper fins are visibly different.

Check it out:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  Wasserfall.GIF
Views: 117
Size:  11.9 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Hermes_A-1_with_gantry.jpg
Views: 106
Size:  116.5 KB  
__________________
NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-05-2016, 11:21 AM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
Surfrajettes Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: El Paso
Posts: 1,113
Default

Well,

After sifting through all of the responses to this thread, I decided to try something else.

Noting that the picture of the Hermes A-1 I included as an attachment was at almost the perfect angle to do so, I blew it up to the proper size, such that the diameter of the body is 2.6 inches. Taa-Daa! Instant plan! I did it the old fashion way on a copy machine at work which was, in this case, set to 216%. This technique works well when you have a picture where you are looking directly at one of the fins and therefore have a planform view of the others. Plus, I get various other measurements like the thickness of the stripes, how far apart they are, the distance to the orange paint on the nose, that sort of thing. I cut out the white fin and used that as a pattern.

Comparing the Hermes fins to the plan of the Wasserfall from Peter Alway, the Hermes fins have the same root chord and trailing edge taper, but are shorter in span and less-swept at the leading edge. I'll post a picture later this morning on a cutting board with 1" squares in case anybody else want to try this.

Why this rocket? Well, the picture in the first post is how White Sands Launch Complex 33 looks today. The Hermes A-1 is there. The website says the missile is on loan from the National Air and Space Museum. What happened to the Hermes that used to be on display in the rocket park is unknown. I was looking for something new to satisfy my NARTrek Silver Scale requirement and with the NSL coming to Alamogordo next spring, I thought I'd build one. It was only after I started to research Wasserfall that I realized there was a difference.

Anyway, I'm building the Hermes A-1 using a Estes BT-80 Canadian Arrow as a starting point, the Alway Wasserfall drawing for lower fins and my pattern for the upper fins as above. I'll post pictures.
__________________
NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-05-2016, 12:12 PM
Gus's Avatar
Gus Gus is offline
7/21/61
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North of Detroit
Posts: 2,223
Default

Mark,

Interesting question and good research on your part. I've forwarded your question to Peter to see what further info he has.

I did look through his book "In The Shadow Of The V-2" but no specific info on the Hermes.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-07-2016, 08:00 AM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
Surfrajettes Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: El Paso
Posts: 1,113
Default

Hermes A-1 coming along. Gonna need a bunch of nose weight. That is the CG location between the forward fins.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  DSC_0698[1].jpg
Views: 85
Size:  893.5 KB  
__________________
NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-07-2016, 01:42 PM
mojo1986's Avatar
mojo1986 mojo1986 is offline
Old Canuck Modeller
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kingston, CANADA
Posts: 2,160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
Hermes A-1 coming along. Gonna need a bunch of nose weight. That is the CG location between the forward fins.


Looks like you have a lot more area behind the CG than in front of it. I take it that's the CG of the bare rocket without an engine inserted...........

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-07-2016, 07:40 PM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
Surfrajettes Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: El Paso
Posts: 1,113
Default

No. That's the D-powered point, engine in. The typical CG on a V-2 is at the point where the tail cone starts. Every V-2 I've ever built needed nose weight to achieve that. The point identified on the Hermes is 5" ahead of that. That's a bunch on a rocket that's not even two feet tall.

There's going to be alot of Tungsten up front . . . .
__________________
NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-08-2017, 08:02 PM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
Surfrajettes Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: El Paso
Posts: 1,113
Default

A MIRACLE happened today!

While painting Hermes, I actually got to finish a can of Gloss White Rustoleum! It took three different nozzles over about a one year period. I painted Hermes (twice), Scrambler, K-41 Redstone, repaired Viking and a Big Bertha.

I was spraying the nose cone (again) when it started sputtering and I thought "Gosh Darn, here we go with the nozzle again" but no, the hollow sound of the rattle in an empty can when I shook it. I'm pretty sure that's the first can I've actual finished since they went over to those white plastic spray nozzles five or six years ago.

I still need to spray the orange on the nose on Friday so I'll be able to post a finished picture this weekend.
__________________
NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-08-2017, 09:43 PM
LeeR's Avatar
LeeR LeeR is offline
Retired with Way Too Many Kits
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,222
Default

I'm not sure if you've checked out V2ROCKET.COM, but there is a lot of reference material, in addition to links to other reference sites, books, etc.

I've barely scratched the surface on what there is to be found at this site.

If I were told I could only build V-2 models and their variants, I could learn to live with it.
__________________
Lee Reep
NAR 55948

Projects: Semroc Saturn 1B, Ken Foss Designs Mini Satellite Interceptor
In the Paint Shop: Nothing! Too cold!
Launch-Ready: Farside-X, Maxi Honest John, Super Scamp
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-08-2017, 11:10 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
BP Mafia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ft. Thomas, KY
Posts: 8,596
Default

I've got a BT-50 Wasserfall just waiting for me to bust out the epoxy and git-r-done. I got the info needed from Peter Alway's Scale Bash.
__________________
Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-18-2017, 10:18 AM
MarkB.'s Avatar
MarkB. MarkB. is offline
Surfrajettes Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: El Paso
Posts: 1,113
Default

Comrades:

To close the circle, here it is aginst this morning's angry Texas sky. It still needs a little more nose weight. I'm going to try and test fly it at my next launch, likely Yuri's Day in early April. I hope to take it to NSL 2017 in Alamogordo on Memorial Day.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  Hermes.jpg
Views: 63
Size:  553.0 KB  
__________________
NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024