Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Golden Age of Model Rocketry > Model Rocket History
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-14-2009, 10:04 PM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 11,610
Default Centuri Photo

I rediscovered this photo in the 1977 Centuri Rocket Times. They have a liftoff shot of their Centuri Saturn V. However, on the racks behind it are at least four Estes Citation Patriots.

I know they were both owned by Damon at this time, but they did still compete at that point. I'm not sure if that was a decision based on them counting on people not noticing, or if they didn't mind letting people see the friendly competition.

Scroll to the bottom of the newsletter.

__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-15-2009, 12:08 AM
Mark II's Avatar
Mark II Mark II is offline
Forest Sprite
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Back Up in the Woods
Posts: 3,657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I rediscovered this photo in the 1977 Centuri Rocket Times. They have a liftoff shot of their Centuri Saturn V. However, on the racks behind it are at least four Estes Citation Patriots.

I know they were both owned by Damon at this time, but they did still compete at that point. I'm not sure if that was a decision based on them counting on people not noticing, or if they didn't mind letting people see the friendly competition.

Scroll to the bottom of the newsletter.


Are you sure those aren't early versions of the Spirit of America (#5344)? (Hard to tell in the photo.)

Mark \\.
__________________
Mark S. Kulka NAR #86134 L1,_ASTRE #471_Adirondack Mountains, NY
Opinions Unfettered by Logic • Advice Unsullied by Erudition • Rocketry Without Pity
+09281962-TAK-08272007+
SAM # 0011
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-15-2009, 12:36 AM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I rediscovered this photo in the 1977 Centuri Rocket Times. They have a liftoff shot of their Centuri Saturn V. However, on the racks behind it are at least four Estes Citation Patriots.

I know they were both owned by Damon at this time, but they did still compete at that point. I'm not sure if that was a decision based on them counting on people not noticing, or if they didn't mind letting people see the friendly competition.

Scroll to the bottom of the newsletter.



Not to mention an Estes #1272 Vostok on the far pad...
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-15-2009, 01:35 AM
Royatl's Avatar
Royatl Royatl is offline
SPEV/Orion wrangler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
Are you sure those aren't early versions of the Spirit of America (#5344)? (Hard to tell in the photo.)

Mark \\.


No, those are very definitely Citation Patriots. Very distinctive.
__________________
Roy
nar12605
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:12 AM
lurker01 lurker01 is offline
Craftsman
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 312
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
Are you sure those aren't early versions of the Spirit of America (#5344)? (Hard to tell in the photo.)

Mark \\.


Mark,

What resolution are you viewing the picture at?! Those ARE Patriots.

Estes and Centuri were advertiesed as competing commercial entities into the early 1980s.

I remember receiving Estes coupons and promotions for Centuri closeout items. If you scan the ninfinger site, and look at the seasonal Estes catalogs of the time, you will see Centuri kits being offered.

IIRC, Estes is now a brand name that is offered under the corporate entity of the, 'Centuri Corporation'; has to do with taxes. I believe the company is incorporated in Arizona. I would have chosen Nevada as there is no state income tax for corporations At least 2 of the 48 states of America 'get it'

Anyhow, if you want more detailed information behind the corporate entities such as Estes, Centuri , Damon, then please steer your browser to this link:

http://www.answers.com/topic/centuri-1

Hope this information has answered your question(s).

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:30 AM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 11,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
Are you sure those aren't early versions of the Spirit of America (#5344)? (Hard to tell in the photo.)

Mark \\.


I'm sure. For once in my life I actually looked very closely before I shot off my mouth.
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:51 AM
Chas Russell's Avatar
Chas Russell Chas Russell is offline
Retired Missile Technician
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,076
Default

That was a demo launch I beleive in Alamogordo, New Mexico. It was probably sponsored by a local club. Tom Beach might have been involved. Anyway, back in those days, Estes and Centturi would donate kits to clubs or sections to be built and used in the demo launches. I even took part in the mid-'70s in building kits to send back to Estes so that they could send the built models out. Ever desire to build ten of the large R2-D2 kits? Usually they then provided you with gift certificates.
This would explain the mix of kits from the manufacturers. Plus, I am sure someone sent them the picture, as opposed to them talking one featuring just their products.

Chas
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:11 AM
jdbectec jdbectec is offline
the middle-aged rocketeer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Urbana, Illinois.....the birthplace of HAL
Posts: 468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker01
Mark,

What resolution are you viewing the picture at?! Those ARE Patriots.

Estes and Centuri were advertiesed as competing commercial entities into the early 1980s.

I remember receiving Estes coupons and promotions for Centuri closeout items. If you scan the ninfinger site, and look at the seasonal Estes catalogs of the time, you will see Centuri kits being offered.

IIRC, Estes is now a brand name that is offered under the corporate entity of the, 'Centuri Corporation'; has to do with taxes. I believe the company is incorporated in Arizona. I would have chosen Nevada as there is no state income tax for corporations At least 2 of the 48 states of America 'get it'

Anyhow, if you want more detailed information behind the corporate entities such as Estes, Centuri , Damon, then please steer your browser to this link:

http://www.answers.com/topic/centuri-1

Hope this information has answered your question(s).

Bob



I've done a google search on the lawsuit mentioned in the above link, and can't find any details on it. It is quoted in several other cases.

Does anyone know any details on it?

Just curious.
__________________
Jeffrey Deem
NAR16741
CIA section 527
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-15-2009, 10:03 AM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 6,134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I rediscovered this photo in the 1977 Centuri Rocket Times. They have a liftoff shot of their Centuri Saturn V. However, on the racks behind it are at least four Estes Citation Patriots.

I know they were both owned by Damon at this time, but they did still compete at that point. I'm not sure if that was a decision based on them counting on people not noticing, or if they didn't mind letting people see the friendly competition.

Scroll to the bottom of the newsletter.



That picture is from the rocket launch at the opening of the "Space Hall of Fame" in Alamogordo, NM in 1977. G. Harry Stine among other notables was there and Centuri and Estes collaborated on a commemorative celebration rocket launch as part of the festivities... Hence Centuri and Estes rockets on the same launcher.

That is a VERY cool place by the way... I went about 4 1/2 years ago or so... I'd never been to Alamogordo before and it's a BEAUTIFUL place... I love it there, and at Cloudcroft overlooking the city on the edge of the Tularosa Basin. Betty and I toured the Space Hall of Fame, and went to a presentation on the shuttle being given by an older gentleman. He showed our small group a shuttle tile, asking us to be careful with it due to their EXTREMELY fragile nature... this one was dinged and dented from fingernails and kids dropping it and all... they're about the consistency and texture of that freeze dried 'astronaut ice cream' you can get at the space center visitor shops. VERY soft brittle stuff. We chatted awhile afterwards and all the other folks drifted off on their self-guided tours of the displays, and we started talking about the space program more in-depth. Turns out the fellow, who despite being in his 70's was still in EXCELLENT shape, was a former Navy frogman who was actually part of the recovery forces for part of Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo... He ticked off a bunch of the flights that he recovered... I can't remember them all now but I remember he was on the recovery of Apollo 13. We talked about that stuff awhile, and about other stuff, and he mentioned Joe Kittinger (from Project Manhigh, which preceded Mercury and still holds the record as the highest parachute jump of all time) had been there at the museum a week or two before... and that he knew Joe for a long time... What cracked me up was a comment he made then-- "Geez Joe sure let himself go!" That kind of cracked me up, because here are guys in their mid to late 70's at the time, and still concerned about their fitness levels... But I guess once you've gone through that level of achievement and maintaining your physical fitness to perform your duties, it's second nature... Too bad I don't have that problem!

Anyway, there is SO much cool stuff to see there, inside and outside. I enjoyed the rocket garden there and the old V-2 engines and rusty tailfin sections sitting out there, recovered from the White Sands Missile Range from the old V-2 tests after the war. VERY cool stuff! If you ever go, be sure to go out to White Sands National Monument and roam around the dunes, THAT is pretty cool, and drive over to WSMR visitor center/museum and rocket garden there, THAT place is way cool too. Also, just north of Alamogordo at Carrizzozo be sure you take the walking tour of the Malpais lava beds-- that's a neat thing! I've actually seen them from footage taken from a rocket mounted movie camera, probably a V-2, launched from White Sands. The black lava fields on the white/tan desert below stick out like a cockroach on a white carpet! Also, twice a year, they offer a tour of Trinity Site on the north end of WSMR, the place where the world's first atomic bomb was exploded in July of 1945. VERY cool stuff, though we missed the tour by a few weeks. The tours are conducted through the National Atomic Museum in Albuquerque. I highly recommend that too! I spent all day in there! Betty enjoyed the Smokey the Bear museum in (can't remember the little town's name at the moment-- it was pretty cool Also, you can visit three other nuclear weapons related sites in New Mexico, one where a 36,000 pound hydrogen bomb dropped out of a B-36 near Albuqueque and exploded (no detonation) and killed a cow, and two "peaceful atom" Project Plowshare underground nuclear detonations-- Project Gasbuggy gas well fracturing test up north of Shiprock, and the other was Project Gnome, a relatively shallow nuclear detonation in a salt dome down near Carlsbad Caverns in the SE corner of the state. You can see the actual detonations in the DVD "Journey to Ground Zero" from the Nat'l Atomic Museum gift shop or online.

VERY cool stuff for rocket/techno geeks... OL JR
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-15-2009, 11:56 AM
jadebox's Avatar
jadebox jadebox is offline
Roger Smith/JonRocket.com
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oviedo, FL
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbectec
I've done a google search on the lawsuit mentioned in the above link, and can't find any details on it. It is quoted in several other cases.

Does anyone know any details on it?


Some information on the lawsuits is at:

http://www.payloadbay.com/article-toybiz-inc.html

The references you find on the 'net are mostly about the counter-case filed by Toy Biz in New York. Most of the references seem to have to do with how the court decides jurisdiction when two companies, located in different regions of the country, are involved.

-- Roger
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024