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  #41  
Old 03-15-2010, 07:06 AM
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mojo1986 mojo1986 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker01
Joe,

FYI for you and others here about stapled Estes kits...

They do exist, just very hard to come by.

If you have 62/63/early 64 kits, they are indeed stapled. I have a handful of such kits that were factory stapled and shipped this way directly from Estes. How do I know this, well I opened a sealed mailing box that contained Estes items (from an estate sale) and inside were a couple of 'direct from Estes' Astron Marks. Yes, they were stapled and yes they are mint from Estes. They date to ~1962/63. What is most interesting about them is that they come with the old hollowed out balsa nose block for a thrust ring... very nice.

There could be two reasons why early kits from Estes were stapled:

1) They didn't yet posses a heat sealer yet (applies to the very EARLY kit offerings)

or

2) The heat sealer was down, so they stapled kits until they got the sealer working again; same way the 'Blue Paper" Estes motors were released due to them running out of the brown motor paper for a very short time.

My money is on #1.

What I find so surprising from this group is that no one has picked up on the rarity of the Sky Hook that just closed on ebay ... it doesn't have a "K" number on the instructions and features a 'special price'! This is the kit version that you ordered from the Model Rocket News and not the commercial version that you later bought in 1964.

So not only isn't it opened, but its the 'pre-' version of the "K" kit catalog version; or the Model Rocket News kit (see MRN V3N4).

I believe that at the time MRN V3N4, Estes had decided to kit the Skyhook, but since the 1963 catalog had already been out for 7+ months, they offered the kit in MRN and then made space for it in the 1964 catalog.

So the take home message is: Don't assume that a stapled kit is an opened kit. Estes did in fact staple their early kits (I am not lying or making this up, as I have examples of their stapled kits direct from Estes). The early nascent kits had hollowed out balsa nose blocks for thrust rings and finding them is well a bit hard.
Also remember, Estes had paper hang tags that were stapled, but that was a later time and only deals with a handful of their kit offerings.

I know I know, go back under my rock ... so yes I will return. Hope you find the information above educational... or not.

Lurker01


Bob.....................I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would need more convincing. I have seen Estes kits from the same era as the Sky Hook that was on Ebay (stapled) and they were all heat sealed (there are clues that help date kits, such as the artwork in the instructions, and I'd place a small wager that the Mark kits you refer to in your post have the same style of artwork as the aforementioned Sky Hook).

Heck, the Scout was Estes' first kit, and all of the earliest examples I've seen of it were heat sealed.

Now, if Vern were to step forward and state that he had personally closed his earlier kits with staples, that would certainly clinch it. By the way, what are the staples in your kits like? Do they match the staples that were used in some of Estes other early products? How about posting a few photos to help support your case?

Joe
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  #42  
Old 03-15-2010, 12:24 PM
lurker01 lurker01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1986
Bob.....................I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would need more convincing. I have seen Estes kits from the same era as the Sky Hook that was on Ebay (stapled) and they were all heat sealed (there are clues that help date kits, such as the artwork in the instructions, and I'd place a small wager that the Mark kits you refer to in your post have the same style of artwork as the aforementioned Sky Hook).

Heck, the Scout was Estes' first kit, and all of the earliest examples I've seen of it were heat sealed.

Now, if Vern were to step forward and state that he had personally closed his earlier kits with staples, that would certainly clinch it. By the way, what are the staples in your kits like? Do they match the staples that were used in some of Estes other early products? How about posting a few photos to help support your case?

Joe



Hello Joe,

I will never again post pictures of my collection or photos of items again on this site. After being told or implied that I had some sort of 'sickness', I just figure ... why bother?

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showp...02&postcount=77

Lets just say I have enough older kits to know what I am talking about. Trust me, I did post bins and bins of OLD NOT SKILL LEVEL KITS, NOT 13XX KITS, BUT KITS FROM THE 60'S ("K" kits and Centuri Kits, + others); and it was felt that the photos were DISTURBING (please see the link above).

I also need to go back to that thread and remove the remaining pictures; my personal property is no one's business except my own, I should have learned that by this time in my life!

Interesting that others can post picture after picture of their "K" kits and they are welcomed with praise and accolades, yet I post bins and lockers worth, and now I have a sickness... well never again will I post a SINGLE image or picture on this site ever again ... I was a bit hesitant on even replying to this original thread and well... I wish I hadn't ... why should I educate others? It has cost me tens of thousands of dollars for the items and knowledge that I have and frankly, I am not into giving it away for free... never again.

Estes kits came stapled in the early years. I don't need you to certify it as I already know its true so I don't need your or anyone else's validation. Nothing personal of course; just tired of fighting with people ... why bother? Do I win a prize? Do I get extra years added to my life or more money in the bank? Nope, its a waste of my time and efforts.

Look to make things smooth and allow egos to flow freely here, disregard EVERYTHING and ANYTHING I have posted here over the years. Scott/Buzz I DEMAND THAT YOU REMOVE EVERY POSTING I HAVE EVER MADE TO YOUR SITE! I will stop posting and showing that I have some DISTURBED behavior because I have thousands of rocket kits; I probably eat babies on the side; GREAT WITH SOY SAUCE!.

In turn I will make all of you happy and remove my account from this forum. This way you will all feel safe and secure in your current knowledge and model rocket history. I will no longer 'rock the boat' by introducing information that is contrary to your current belief system. Its a win-win for you all!

The proto-types, the plans, the 8mm and 16mm film, the negatives, the correspondences ... just let it go. Just forget about it. Estes kits started with heat sealed kits ... why? Because that is what you know ... anything contrary to that is at best myth and most likely fabrication on my part.

So with that, let me go and delete the rest of my pictures and finally my account from this forum. Its been a long run, but frankly folks we all know we are sick of me. We are sick of the political postings; we are sick of the rocket postings, we are sick of the 'lurker' postings. Yes 'WE'. I really do have better things to do and you all have better things to read. Be honest with yourself; search your feelings, you know this to be true.

So until the 50's/60's generation of rocketeers die off, I will not have a seat at the table of rocketry collectors, competitors, fliers. So I will just have to sit and count my time until that day comes; 'every dog has their day' ... my day will come and pass.

Good luck to you all no matter what your rocketry interest is.

LURKER01 ... lurking no longer! Ring the church bells!
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  #43  
Old 03-15-2010, 02:15 PM
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rokitflite rokitflite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker01
Hello Joe,

I will never again post pictures of my collection or photos of items again on this site. After being told or implied that I had some sort of 'sickness', I just figure ... why bother?

http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showp...02&postcount=77

Lets just say I have enough older kits to know what I am talking about. Trust me, I did post bins and bins of OLD NOT SKILL LEVEL KITS, NOT 13XX KITS, BUT KITS FROM THE 60'S ("K" kits and Centuri Kits, + others); and it was felt that the photos were DISTURBING (please see the link above).


LURKER01 ... lurking no longer! Ring the church bells!



One person reacted poorly to the pictures of EVERYONES collections, mine included... YOU just chose to take your ball and go home.
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  #44  
Old 03-15-2010, 04:07 PM
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mojo1986 mojo1986 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker01

search your feelings, you know this to be true.


Bob...........................may the Force be with you.

Joe
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  #45  
Old 03-15-2010, 04:53 PM
scigs30 scigs30 is offline
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Hey, I started that topic.................I saw that post and I was not really offended. Boxes and Boxes of Estes kits is not a sickness.................APS, CPS........Heck I have seen a lot worse over the years in my job, but mostly junk.....Most collectors of Comics and other valuables keep their items stored safely and not all over the house. You want to see sickness just watch Hoarders.....This hobby has been a life saver for me. Sure I have spent a few thousand dollars on vintage kits, but how many hours of enjoyment is that? I was spending that much money a month on drinking and partying. Yeah That's a lot of drinking. I am now married, doing what I like....Traveling, Running, Sports, rocketry and free-flight. Life is too short, do what makes you happy as long as you are not hurting others.
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  #46  
Old 03-15-2010, 05:31 PM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scigs30
Heck I have seen a lot worse over the years in my job, but mostly junk.....Most collectors of Comics and other valuables keep their items stored safely and not all over the house. You want to see sickness just watch Hoarders......


That's right. I've crawled across rooms trying to get to fires without ever coming close to touching the floor. I've crawled completely through a few houses without touching the floor (at least it felt like I didn't...Scigs30 will know what I mean), all the while thinking I should back the team out and let it burn for the good of the family.
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  #47  
Old 03-15-2010, 06:15 PM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
...thinking I should back the team out and let it burn for the good of the family.
Your family? Or the homeowner's?

Doug

.
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  #48  
Old 03-15-2010, 06:20 PM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Your family? Or the homeowner's?

Doug

.


I was thinking of the homeowner's, but I guess my family would benefit from me not getting myself killed trying to save a home that should be condemned to begin with....unless there are some life insurance policies I don't know about.
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  #49  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:00 AM
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mojo1986 mojo1986 is offline
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This is a public apology to Bob (Lurker01). Bob, I have reprinted my comment to your post regarding Estes stapled kits below:

"Bob.....................I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would need more convincing. I have seen Estes kits from the same era as the Sky Hook that was on Ebay (stapled) and they were all heat sealed (there are clues that help date kits, such as the artwork in the instructions, and I'd place a small wager that the Mark kits you refer to in your post have the same style of artwork as the aforementioned Sky Hook).

Heck, the Scout was Estes' first kit, and all of the earliest examples I've seen of it were heat sealed.

Now, if Vern were to step forward and state that he had personally closed his earlier kits with staples, that would certainly clinch it. By the way, what are the staples in your kits like? Do they match the staples that were used in some of Estes other early products? How about posting a few photos to help support your case?

Joe"


Bob, you appear to have left this forum, but I hope you drop in occasionally so that you might read this post. I can tell you sincerely that there was no intent to offend you in any way with my comment. Estes may well have stapled their earliest kits, but since any opened kit can be stapled closed, I think it would be difficult to state definitively that a stapled kit is an Estes original. Again, if Vern or anyone who worked at Estes during the early years can confirm this, that would clinch it for me. Until then, I remain skeptical. Perhaps Bill Simon, a member here, could shed some additional light on this.

Bob, I really think you have taken my comments the wrong way, and I am disappointed in your reaction. You are a knowledgeable, longtime collector with a lot to contribute here. I hope you will consider returning.

Joe
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  #50  
Old 03-18-2010, 09:21 AM
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sandman sandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokitflite
One person reacted poorly to the pictures of EVERYONES collections, mine included... YOU just chose to take your ball and go home.


And, Scott, you have a lot of kits!
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