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  #1  
Old 12-06-2008, 03:55 PM
blankjorge blankjorge is offline
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Default Sandia Sandhawk - suggestions on the red/orange color

Hi Doc,
I'm working up a somewhat sport scale of a Sandia Sandhawk. As you know, the body is supposed to be painted in a red/orange color. Any guesses on a canned spraypaint that's close to the appropriate color? I don't have any compressor based spray paint or airbrush equipment.

The base kit is a Yank 3" Sandhawk. The tube is now glassed and I have modified the original to support dual deploy. The goal is to learn DD with this rocket, but I'd like the finish to look good for at least the first flight.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankjorge
Hi Doc,
I'm working up a somewhat sport scale of a Sandia Sandhawk. As you know, the body is supposed to be painted in a red/orange color. Any guesses on a canned spraypaint that's close to the appropriate color? I don't have any compressor based spray paint or airbrush equipment.

The base kit is a Yank 3" Sandhawk. The tube is now glassed and I have modified the original to support dual deploy. The goal is to learn DD with this rocket, but I'd like the finish to look good for at least the first flight.

Thanks!

Krylon Red-Orange Fluorescent paint. Or any other bright red-orange, for that matter.

As you may already know, there is no officially documented shade of red that was used on the rounds that were painted that color. The Sandhawks were all painted white at the factory, and I do recall seeing a photo somewhere on the web of a white Sandhawk mounted on its launcher. The engineers at the launch sites decided that all-white Sandhawks would be difficult to visually track, though. So, at least in the case of flight 281-3, the third single-stage flight, launched from Hawaii (which is the one that most builders try to model), either the scientists or the launch personnel went out and bought cans of spray paint and used them to paint the Sandhawk a bright color before its flight! The color was whatever shade of red that they could get their hands on. Since there have been slight color shifts in the prints and reproductions of the few photos that are available for that flight, the exact shade of red that was used has never been definitively established. In most photos, though, it appears to be a bright shade of red-orange. Krylon Red-Orange Fuorescent happens to be what I plan on using on the 2-inch sort-of-scale Sandhawk that I am building, when I finally get to the painting stage, but I make no pretense of claiming that this is the one-and-only "right" color. And I may switch it if, in the meantime, I see another version that I like better.

Some have suggested using Allis-Chalmers (a k a Persian) Orange, which is available as a spray paint from Rusto-Leum, but, to me, it looks too orange. It works fine on a scale Jayhawk, but not on a Sandhawk, at least to my eye. If you decide to go with the Krylon, be aware that they make two different shades of fluorescent red spray paint: Red-Orange, and another shade called Cerise Red. The Cerise contains no orange at all, and comes out looking just a couple of shades darker than hot pink, so I don't think that it would work at all on a Sandhawk. I haven't done a whole lot of research into what other red-oranges are available in spray cans, so if you find something else, let us know. I'll be interested in seeing what you use.

Mark \\.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:49 PM
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I just thought of another shade of red that I have used in other projects that might work for the Sandhawk - Duplicolor Radiant Fire (EDSCC382). It is automobile spray paint, and I bought it at Advanced Auto. It is absolutely one of the most fiery non-fluorescent reds that I have ever seen come out of a spray can.

Mark \\.
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  #4  
Old 12-06-2008, 09:15 PM
blankjorge blankjorge is offline
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Default Hmmm, I'll try the Duplicolor Radiant Fire (EDSCC382).

Goodness, thanks for the details. I had done some "google" research on the Sandhawk but clearly never scratch the surface....thanks!

I'm going with the Duplicolor Radient Fire because I have encountered an interesting "fading" issue with the Krylon paint. In direct sunlight, I experience a situation where the Krylon dayglow took on the shadows of objects held above the paint. I might have been the particular bottle I used, but biased towards Duplicolor because of it's ease of use.

Thanks again for your information and suggestions. If I can figure out how to post pictures, I'll include a picture once the building is done...and before I lawndart the poor beastie.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:37 PM
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Here's a good site for data (photos) for the Sandhawk.

Also, I got a truly amazing amount of information (including the background info I posted before) from the NARTS Sandhawk Scale Pack, written by Matt Steele and Craig Beyers.

Mark \\.
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2008, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
Here's a good site for data (photos) for the Sandhawk.

Also, I got a truly amazing amount of information (including the background info I posted before) from the NARTS Sandhawk Scale Pack, written by Matt Steele and Craig Beyers.

Mark \\.


I scanned a photo I got from Thiokol back in the 70s which is the same as one of the photos from the site you listed. My photo doesn't appear to have the color-shift. Here is the link
http://www.geocities.com/rocketguy_...es/sandhawk.JPG

edit: if that direct link won't work try going to my photo page and get the hi-res from there.
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Last edited by rocketguy101 : 12-07-2008 at 11:03 AM.
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2008, 08:51 AM
blankjorge blankjorge is offline
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Default Fabulous!

Thank you for the photo. The color is great....but the placement of the screws on the fins and aft section is priceless! The color on the payload section matches duplicolor anodized green. I'm cook'in with gas!
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketguy101
I scanned a photo I got from Thiokol back in the 70s which is the same as one of the photos from the site you listed. My photo doesn't appear to have the color-shift. Here is the link
http://www.geocities.com/rocketguy_...es/sandhawk.JPG

edit: if that direct link won't work try going to my photo page and get the hi-res from there.



However, remember that color photo emulsions can not accurately record a flourescent paint, simply because 1) they aren't sensitive to the UV range, and 2) the dyes in a print or slide are not meant to accurately reproduce a flourescent or iridescent color (doesn't mean they can't come close, sometimes).

You *might* be able to assume that the color would be brighter than that on the photograph, but you would never be able to know for sure.
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  #9  
Old 12-07-2008, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankjorge
Thank you for the photo. The color is great....but the placement of the screws on the fins and aft section is priceless! The color on the payload section matches duplicolor anodized green. I'm cook'in with gas!
What I like best about rocketry -- the people

I have a copy of that photo, too. It is a much sharper print than the print of the identical photo that was in my scale pack. Some of the things that show up in this image are the somewhat mottled appearance of the red paint job on the Sandhawk, and the white spots on a couple of places. Those spots are where the supports were that the Sandhawk was resting on when it was in its cradle. The quick spray paint job was done while the rocket was resting it its shipping cradle, and those are spots that didn't get painted.

Also, if you zoom in close on the fins, you will notice a vertical stripe on the fin on the left (the one that is projecting out toward the viewer). It is darker on its upper part, on the fin's beveled edge, and is a lighter gray as it extends almost halfway down the side of the fin. This is not an artifact of the photo, nor is it a shadow - it is really there on the fin. It is some sort of paint overspray, either done at the factory or at the launch site. IOW, it is a paint masking error!

Finally, also notice that in addition to the antennae extending out from the payload section up near the top of the rocket, there is another antenna extending out from the fin shroud in between the two fins that are visible in the photo. Until I obtained this very sharp version of the photo, I never knew that the bottom antenna was even there; the print that came with my scale pack is not sharp enough to show it.

Now here is where I am looking for some help. One of the things that is really hanging me up on my scratch-build is trying to visualize what those fin brackets look like in 3 dimensions. I have seen some good line drawings of them, and there is a very excellent one in my scale pack, but I am still a bit mystified regarding what parts along the brackets' outer faces (where the bolt heads are) curve in, and what parts curve out (if any). I am going to need to fabricate these brackets, and even though my model will be a sport scale, I would like to get details such as these at least grossly correct. Does any one have any idea, or, better yet, could anyone post a photo, taken at an oblique angle, of a correctly detailed fin bracket?

Mark \\.
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  #10  
Old 12-07-2008, 03:52 PM
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Also, one other detail from the photo: if you look at the bottom of the rocket, below the white fin shroud, you will notice a few inches of the aft end of the rocket motor extending downward below the fins. This part on the Sandhawk was not painted, it was left in its natural metallic color. You could use any kind of Steel or Bronze-Steel paint (depending on how it looks to you in the photo) to paint that section.

Mark \\.
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