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  #1  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:36 AM
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MarkB. MarkB. is offline
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Default Ft. Bliss V-2 and Hawk B

My younger son had a half-day so, because it was cool and breezy, we decided to go to the 1st Armored tank museum at Ft. Bliss. He loves tanks and we had a couple of hours to kill before we picked up his older brother. The museum used to be the Air-Defense Artillery museum with a Sprint, Nike-X, Nike-Hercules, Nike-Ajax and Patriots outside as well as an assortment of smaller missile inside. A V-2 used to be outside with the big missiles. I had not been over there in many years. Since I was last there they moved the Air Defense training to Ft. Sill. Apparently the ADA museum went with it.

All the other missiles were gone but, the V-2 was still outside so I got pictures. This V-2 is something of a mystery. My understanding is that is was relatively recently rebuilt by the Kansas Cosmosphere which would explain why it's in much better condition than it was the last time I saw it. I don't believe that any of the internal parts are present. The tail section on this rocket makes me wonder if it was an American-produced section (Douglas built some replacement sections) as it lacks the hand hammer marks of a slave-built V-2 like the White Sands or NASM V-2s. On the other hand, it's been outside in the high desert sun for 60+ years. That it still exists at all is something of a minor miracle. It should be inside and better cared for; it's a historic artifact both for technological and Holocaust reasons.

Also outside was a Hawk launcher with three missiles. I think these are examples of the last Hawk B. Note that the conduits are asymetrical, being longer on the right side. For you Hawk guys out there, here's some pictures.
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:08 AM
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Thank you for posting those. In the captured "spare parts V-2s" flown at White Sands, the Cape (Bumpers 8 & 7), and from shipboard, the German-made, solid-wire wiring harnesses (which were prone to breakage under vibration, but materials shortages left them no alternative) were replaced with U.S.-made harnesses having stranded wire. Also, I was aware that Douglas had made replacement V-2 fins (the early examples of which often failed under the flight loads), but I didn't know they had produced entire V-2 tail sections, including the tapered boat-tails (but it makes perfect sense, as the German [slave]-made tail sections were as dented as the rest of the missiles' airframes); thank you for providing that information.
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Last edited by blackshire : 04-26-2013 at 08:24 AM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:29 AM
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Just wondering, could that be an MX? It has that "dunce cap" nose and the paint is very close... Also just ordered one from Semroc and it made me take a second look. Construction looks different as well. That one doesn't resemble the one in the Smithsonian at all (panels, rivets, etc.).
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/mx774.htm
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:47 AM
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Nice postcard Foamy. Had not seen that picture. Consolidatd-Vultee (Convair) built three MX-774 vehicles. The first two flights suffered early motor cutoff and shovel recovery. The third vehicle, which is what I believe SEMROC modeled, was actually 34" longer than the first two, which could lead to the confusion on shape.
A great reference is Gregory P. Kennedy's "The Rockets and Missiles of White Sands Proving Grounds". I bought my copy at the Air Force Museum.
I had a couple of questions about the SEMROC instructions as two fins have covers over the aileron push-rods and the other two have teardrop shaped "feet" that I assume are for sitting on the pad. Instructions show them one way for painting and the pictures have them reversed. Not a big issue unless you are entering on in Sports Scale competition.

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Old 04-26-2013, 11:34 AM
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Is the Semroc MX-774 designed from scale data, or is it an upscale of the Centuri MX-774 kit (the PDF of the Semroc kit's instructions won't open for me)? The Centuri kit was not true scale (its boat-tail was shorter in proportion to its fins, while the boat-tail on the actual vehicle extended forward of its fins).
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas Russell
snip...
I had a couple of questions about the SEMROC instructions as two fins have covers over the aileron push-rods and the other two have teardrop shaped "feet" that I assume are for sitting on the pad. Instructions show them one way for painting and the pictures have them reversed. Not a big issue unless you are entering on in Sports Scale competition.

Chas

Oh, no worries about entering Sport Scale comps, I just build 'em as well as I can and fly 'em. This looks like a nice variation from a straight V2. Anxious to see the kit. It should be home when I get there.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Is the Semroc MX-774 designed from scale data, or is it an upscale of the Centuri MX-774 kit (the PDF of the Semroc kit's instructions won't open for me)? The Centuri kit was not true scale (its boat-tail was shorter in proportion to its fins, while the boat-tail on the actual vehicle extended forward of its fins).


Hard to say. I got the pdf to open and it doesn't mention Centuri as they would when they reproduce a kit. It does give a brief history of the rocket. Given that, I'm inclined to think that perhaps scale data was used as the boat-tail in the kit does extend past the top of the fins.

That would be a good question to ask Carl, in the in the SAM/Semroc thread.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:27 PM
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It looks to me to be a V-2, but with a boilerplate restoration. The mid-airframe ducts look off, as in too far apart.

The NASM V-2 is the "gold standard" to which most should be compared.

Greg
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2013, 11:15 PM
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Thanks for posting those. I took some photos of the ADA Museum in 1998. Here is a link:

http://home.pcisys.net/~gelder/ada/ada.htm

The quality of the photos isn't that great.
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:58 AM
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Well, it is definitely a V-2. As for the nose section, recall that all American-launched V-2s except the first one had reworked nose sections. If this was a flight-ready article at one point, then this might explain it's slightly different contour.

As for the "gold standard", I'd put the White Sands Missile Range V-2 right there with the NASM. I've seen both in the last two years and they are both fabulously done. There are seven V-2s in the US , I've only seen three and the Ft. Bliss V-2 is clearly in the roughest shape. I would guess the Kansas Cosmosphere V-2 is restored to a similar shape as the WSMR example. I have no idea what kind of shape the two Alabama and the Ohio V-2s are in.

The real question is are any of the seven, complete, intact examples? By this I mean have they always been more or less completely together (do the parts match). The two western examples almost certainly are not, having been assembled from the parts brought from Germany for the post-war launches. But the other five? I'd bet the Alabama V-2s are built from parts like the western examples and were brought there when the Germans relocated from White Sands, but I don't know. That leaves the Ohio, Kansas and Washington V-2s as potentially intact examples.

Anybody want to fill in the blanks?
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Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7

Last edited by MarkB. : 04-27-2013 at 10:23 AM.
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