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  #11  
Old 10-02-2008, 03:48 PM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecool
Where is the collecting of old kits headed? Do you think it will remain a vibrant subset of the rocketry community? Or will it die off and the value of the old kits go to 0?
I think it's like everything else. (MNSHO) That is, the overall trend will be for increasing value - like most things antiquish in nature - but there will be oscillations in the short term. Things will heat up and cool off periodically thus causing values to go up and down, but long term I think the old kits (sealed, NIB, etc) will continue to accrue value.

While the 60's rocketeers are approaching the knee of the curve, there are still new rocketeers out there who care about the past. The fact that they are fewer in number can affect demand negatively. OTOH, with a new generation, many of these OOP kits will then be another 20-25 years oldER which should affect the demand positively.

IOW, there may be fewer buyers, but they'll be bidding on rarer items. So I think the overall trend will be positive. (Just like the stock market, eh?)

The thing to avoid is buying during short term peaks. For example, various outside events will affect participation in the hobby and thus affect demand for old stuff. In my case, the movie October Sky rekindled my interest, and when I came back I was mightily bummed to learn that A8-0's, B14's and 1/100 Sat 1B's weren't just sitting idly on the shelf patiently waiting for my return. Alas, unlike 1971, I had the money but Estes no longer had the products So I've had to pony up some bucks for some of this stuff.

Anyway, I've seen some fluctuations, and I think similar sorts of events will continue to impact the market. But overall, I expect the values to continue increasing.


Doug

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  #12  
Old 10-02-2008, 04:29 PM
scigs30 scigs30 is offline
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I have never bought an OOP kit for the purpose of collecting and selling some day, I think there are better ways to make money. I enjoy opening up a sealed OOP and putting it together and watching it fly. This means a lot more to me than collecting to have a bag of balsa, cardboard and paper sitting in a closet. As far as cost goes, there are not too many sports or hobbies where you get your money back. Yes you could spend up to 3000 or 5000 dollars collecting a lot of vintage new in bag Estes kits, but to me the satisfaction of building the kit is worth it. If you just want to build OOP kits and fly them, why not clone them? Much cheaper and easier to get. I got back into rocketry because I was wasting my money on meaningless weekend adventures. I sold off my desert toys and began scaling back on my adventures. For me getting back into rocketry has saved me money. Some of the questions you should ask yourself before buying old kits is this, 1. Does the cost of a 50 to 100.00 model kit fit into my budget? 2. What am I going to do with this kit? 3. Do I want the satisfaction of owning and building the original or do I want to build a clone and modify to current building standards. I have a hobby room with my OOP kits built and I have a lot of satisfaction walking into the room and seeing them on display. My desert toys sat in storage where I could only see them a few times a year. I just got done flying some of my OOP kits and posted pictures in the Mission Control section. I firmly believe the only people interested in old kits are the fliers from the 60's 70's and 80's. I seriously doubt the kids of the 90's and today are going to want to collect old rockets. So if you want the OOP Estes kits, I say purchase them and build them, what else would you do with them in the future?
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  #13  
Old 10-02-2008, 05:14 PM
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joecool joecool is offline
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scigs, my interest isn't in trying to make money or have my hobby pay for itself. My interest in the old kits is in owning a piece of model rocket history. As a somewhat (or maybe VERY according to my wife!) obsessive person I also like collecting things, and the idea of building a complete collection of Estes rockets, or at least completing the early years, is appealing. There are very few things one might collect that you could actually collect ALL of, without spending millions!
So, I do enjoy collecting the older kits and just keeping them in the bag. And, as you say, I can build a clone and have the best of both worlds - the original to keep, and a clone to fly.
The reason for my question is, I'm not sure I do want to collect if it means paying thousands to create a collection that become worthless in a short time. If I am going to invest that kind of money I would like relatively high odds that I can recover a large portion of my investment if I need to/decide to move on. Make sense?
And by the way I'm inclined to agree with you - I think these old kits are really only valuable to the folks who used them back when. I suppose there will always be a few oddballs like me who are interested in the early days, and like collecting, but as cloning becomes easier and more popular the need to collect the actual kits will wane.
For my own part, I think rather than trying to collect ALL the old kits, I may just focus on a few of the early years, or kits that really flip my fancy. That way I can have a piece of history but not sink my life savings into it.
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  #14  
Old 10-02-2008, 05:31 PM
scigs30 scigs30 is offline
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Joecool, I don't think these rockets will decrease in value in a short time, but they possibly can over time. It is hard to tell what the young rocketeers will be interested in 20 years from now. I thought the same way you did, collect a few rockets from back in the day. I ended up collecting most of the 1979 catalog and them some. After all my finances are covered. I have a budgeted amount for rocketry, so as long as I stay within my means, I am happy. I really enjoy building the actual kit vs cloning, but that is me. I am also glad for companies like Semroc so that cloning is possible. When I collect a kit there are a couple of things I do before I build it. One is I order the clone parts from Semroc, this is so in the future if I want another I can build it. The next thing I do is scan the decal and duplicate it in Coreldraw. Then it is ready for print on my Alps printer. By the way, there is nothing wrong with being obsessive.
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  #15  
Old 10-02-2008, 06:43 PM
Rustee Rustee is offline
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What is it worth to actually find rare,collectable OOP kits you thought you'd never find and hold them in your hands? Priceless. Why,I might have to go fondle some right now...
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2008, 06:57 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustee
What is it worth to actually find rare,collectable OOP kits you thought you'd never find and hold them in your hands? Priceless. Why,I might have to go fondle some right now...


Yup...

Bob
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2008, 07:04 PM
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joecool joecool is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustee
What is it worth to actually find rare,collectable OOP kits you thought you'd never find and hold them in your hands? Priceless. Why,I might have to go fondle some right now...


'k, now yer just showing off ... !

btw, i found a guy at TRF who is selling me his silver comet kits ... so i guess dreams really do come true!
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  #18  
Old 10-02-2008, 08:17 PM
scigs30 scigs30 is offline
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I am off to open my next vintage build, I am thinking of the Honest John kit with the balsa nose. I am also going to build Semroc's Space plane at the same time. I am also ordering the new Orbital Transport from Semroc. I love this hobby, actually after all the running I did at yesterdays launch, one could call it a sport.
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  #19  
Old 10-02-2008, 11:05 PM
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LeeR LeeR is offline
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I agree with all of you!

Actually, hobby collections are made for so many reasons. I agree with scigs from the standpoint of the thrill of opening and old kit, and reliving the memory of my youth by building it (grew up in the 60s, when Estes was new).

I also see joecool's point. I have a few kits I'd never build - one is an old MPC Vostok model that was sold as a PMC -- a plastic model that included the parts to make it a model rocket. A childhood friend had one, and I swore I'd own one evetually, and I did find one after 20+ years. It means more to me in the box, than it would to build it. I'm not sure I can say why, it just does.

Finally, thank goodness for Semroc and others that make it possible for anyone to own and build a number of rockets from this hobby's past.
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  #20  
Old 10-03-2008, 12:51 PM
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timorley timorley is offline
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I think there will always be some level of collectability for older kits regardless of the popularity of the hobby. I see lots of old memorabilia in other areas continue to sell and increase in value for things long gone or out of popularity. Overall collectability may have it's ups and downs with the hobby, but there will always be a market for the rare and hard to find.

I like to build clones and I like to build originals. And yes sometimes it's just plain cool to hold an old kit in my hands once again that I built as a child. That's nostalgia for you. When I pick originals up, I try for a reasonable price , well, reasonable to me, I try not to go too crazy, I have limits. I will pay a premium for an original versus a clone kit. But it also has to be an original kit I really like and want, I'll pass up older kits if I have no interest in the rocket. Most of the time I'm perfectly happy having a clone. Hard to clone parts sometimes comes into play or availability of plans to clone. I suppose I do have a few originals I may "collect" and never build so long as the means are available to clone them. I'll admit that sometimes I see a high price an original I have goes for and it does give me pause when I open the bag.

There is a preservation of history factor too in collecting. It's a personal choice, but I also think there are occasions to take one for the team and open a hard to find kit, scan and share the plans with the community. I recently did this for one of the kits in the image Bob shared, the Centuri KD-7 Starlifter and sent the plans to YORP. Now anyone can build one and it's recorded and preserved.
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