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  #1  
Old 09-27-2012, 03:45 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Default Help with rocket ID

This is a minimum diameter 18mm bird, 14.125" long, streamer recovered, with spin fins. No identifying marks other than a piece of tape that says "Sound Barrier Backup". It was an Ebay bird and I'm trying to find out if it was a commercially available kit, or if it was just a bird tossed together for max altitude and duration.





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Bill Eichelberger
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http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

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Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

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  #2  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:01 PM
snaquin snaquin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
This is a minimum diameter 18mm bird, 14.125" long, streamer recovered, with spin fins. No identifying marks other than a piece of tape that says "Sound Barrier Backup". It was an Ebay bird and I'm trying to find out if it was a commercially available kit, or if it was just a bird tossed together for max altitude and duration.


Bill,

I flew some CMR kits back in the 70's. That looks like the upper stage of the two stage CMR Hyper rocket that I had back then that was a payload model and had thin plywood fins. Are the fins on your model plywood?

Give the nose cone a little squeeze and see it it's that really lightweight plastic that CMR used and that's probably it. Pull the nose cone out and does the shoulder have a small pinhole in the center to attach a thread for attachment to the shock cord?

I flew mine with the pop lug and even on 1/2A and A motors in both stages it would fly completely out of sight until ejection. I only recovered it because I used full length 10 foot CMR mylar streamers for recovery.



.
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🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals
🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee
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  #3  
Old 09-27-2012, 07:48 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Thanks, Steve. I looked through the catalogs on Ninfinger last night and found a couple that were close to what I was looking for, but they seemed to be just a little off. I never considered the possibility that it was originally a two-stager. The lightweight nose cone would definitely seem to point to a CMR bird, and was something I meant to mention in the description. It's very light and connected to the shock cord by a string through the bottom of the cone.
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Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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  #4  
Old 09-27-2012, 08:08 PM
snaquin snaquin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
Thanks, Steve. I looked through the catalogs on Ninfinger last night and found a couple that were close to what I was looking for, but they seemed to be just a little off. I never considered the possibility that it was originally a two-stager. The lightweight nose cone would definitely seem to point to a CMR bird, and was something I meant to mention in the description. It's very light and connected to the shock cord by a string through the bottom of the cone.


I just noticed Scott has the plans for it you may be able to compare with some of the dimensions here

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/cmr/cmrC2/cmrC2.htm

The bottom stage was 3" so that would put your upper stage length about where you referenced.

I had the ELO and the EFFY too. CMR used that fin design a lot but the nose cones in CMR kits were quite unique in design and shape. I botched a couple using too much glue they were so thin they would melt when joining the shoulder to the cone. I have a picture of the upper stage of my ELO in an old pic from 1978.

Nice find by the way ..... although I'd be inclined to snap the fins off and glue them on straight!



.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 01Rockets in closet 1978.pdf (95.5 KB, 100 views)
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Steve Naquin
TRA# 677 L2
NAR# 85518 L2
SAM# 0052

🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals
🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee
🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate
🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim
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  #5  
Old 09-27-2012, 08:23 PM
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John Brohm John Brohm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
...

Nice find by the way ..... although I'd be inclined to snap the fins off and glue them on straight!



.


I'm stumped as to what it might be, but I must say those fins look like they were intended to be canted. In this configuration they would definitely spin the rocket.
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  #6  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:22 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brohm
I'm stumped as to what it might be, but I must say those fins look like they were intended to be canted. In this configuration they would definitely spin the rocket.

Hopefully better than my recently completed Spin Fin clone. That one was gone so fast I couldn't tell if it spun or not.
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Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:21 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
I just noticed Scott has the plans for it you may be able to compare with some of the dimensions here

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/cmr/cmrC2/cmrC2.htm

The bottom stage was 3" so that would put your upper stage length about where you referenced.

I had the ELO and the EFFY too. CMR used that fin design a lot but the nose cones in CMR kits were quite unique in design and shape. I botched a couple using too much glue they were so thin they would melt when joining the shoulder to the cone. I have a picture of the upper stage of my ELO in an old pic from 1978.

Nice find by the way ..... although I'd be inclined to snap the fins off and glue them on straight!



.

This one doesn't have the payload section mentioned in the instructions, but it mentions that it can be flown without one. The lack of a pop lug setup has me wondering, though. As for the fins, I like them in this setup. They should cut down on the altitude a bit and make it flyable at B6-4 Field on a 1/2A. This weekend is shot because of the Big Top Festival, but I can welcome October in the right way next weekend.
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Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:40 PM
dannymrmissile dannymrmissile is offline
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Default Cmr Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
This is a minimum diameter 18mm bird, 14.125" long, streamer recovered, with spin fins. No identifying marks other than a piece of tape that says "Sound Barrier Backup". It was an Ebay bird and I'm trying to find out if it was a commercially available kit, or if it was just a bird tossed together for max altitude and duration.






Hi-i see this post is about a week old, but i just saw it. I have a '71 CMR catalog in my lap now. This kit looks a lot like several of the kits you mentioned-except the catalog says they come with "pre formed PLASTIC fins". The shape of the fins favor the Rapier, but the BT dia is .890 " and are even with the bottom of the tube. The Effy has much broader fins than the one in your pics. Hope this helps (some), let me kno-i have many later versions of the catalogs & will look if needed. dan. oh-"pop" lugs were optional, not part of the kit. The 2 stage "HYPER" had plastic fins too-that go to bottom of tube also, and see none with spin fins.
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  #9  
Old 10-11-2012, 03:36 AM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannymrmissile
Hi-i see this post is about a week old, but i just saw it. I have a '71 CMR catalog in my lap now. This kit looks a lot like several of the kits you mentioned-except the catalog says they come with "pre formed PLASTIC fins". The shape of the fins favor the Rapier, but the BT dia is .890 " and are even with the bottom of the tube. The Effy has much broader fins than the one in your pics. Hope this helps (some), let me kno-i have many later versions of the catalogs & will look if needed. dan. oh-"pop" lugs were optional, not part of the kit. The 2 stage "HYPER" had plastic fins too-that go to bottom of tube also, and see none with spin fins.

I checked both CMR catalogs at Ninfinger and the Effy was the only one that sounded close. I'm thinking that the spin fin setup might have just been something that this guy did to see if it worked, being a science teacher and all. I've never seen another CMR kit, so I'm just going on guesses. If you have any other possibilities, by all means let me know.
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Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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  #10  
Old 10-11-2012, 01:29 PM
dannymrmissile dannymrmissile is offline
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Question Plastic

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
I checked both CMR catalogs at Ninfinger and the Effy was the only one that sounded close. I'm thinking that the spin fin setup might have just been something that this guy did to see if it worked, being a science teacher and all. I've never seen another CMR kit, so I'm just going on guesses. If you have any other possibilities, by all means let me know.

One major question is are these fins PLASTIC ? The catalogs say they are. I will dig out my later CMR Cats. & see if there was any changes. One thing gives it away for sure, is the nose cone that was described by the other post. Those cones are paper thin and hollow, w/a tiny hole. And plastic cement would certainly craze or even melt them, as was mentioned. So if it has that, im sure its a CMR. BTW, I would NOT change or alter (fix up) the kit. Sure it would be fun to fly-but make a clone and save the Original you have-AS it IS! Thats what makes them more desireable. I just got a EARLY Estes scout . It is flown, burnt on bottom, etc.-but beautiful in it's own right, and have no plans to fix it up. These are my opinions-I restore old kits, but some are best left as is-yours is one of them. More as I look deeper. Oh-I still dont understand yet, about the fins NOT being even w/bottom of tube ??! , so leave it as it is....it is a NICE bird ! dan. PS- i just looked at the website posted on the kit-notice even there -the fins are EVEN with bottom of tube ! Urs are NOT......
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Last edited by dannymrmissile : 10-11-2012 at 01:41 PM. Reason: PS/spelling
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