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  #11  
Old 10-26-2005, 09:01 PM
Doug Sams's Avatar
Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Dragon
...as I've posted before, the MOST needed item in rocketry today is a line of D-F (? G ), Black Powder motors.
Al,
I think, at some point in the past but after FSI, the shipping regulations changed making anything bigger than a D significantly more expensive to ship. That said, I'd like to see some too. Even if we can't have G's or F's, some cored D and E BP boosters would be way kewl.

I can't recall the exact details, but there's a 30g USPS limit I think. IIRC, that's why some stores don't carry the current Estes E.

Doug
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  #12  
Old 10-27-2005, 12:20 AM
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Tau Zero Tau Zero is offline
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Talking "It's PIGskin Season..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
I was all set to gut my Estes National Aerospace Plane this afternoon to install a 24mm mount, but I thought that I'd wait to see what the new Quest D might do for it. It's quite a pig

(LCO voice) "And now on the pad, we've got Bill Eichelberger's 'National Aerospace Pig.' Next to it, Craig McGraw's 'Kick a Pig.' I saw the two of these guys chewing the fat earlier today..."


Cheers,

--Jay
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  #13  
Old 10-27-2005, 09:36 AM
Green Dragon Green Dragon is offline
AL Swackhammer , power freak
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Al,
I think, at some point in the past but after FSI, the shipping regulations changed making anything bigger than a D significantly more expensive to ship. That said, I'd like to see some too. Even if we can't have G's or F's, some cored D and E BP boosters would be way kewl.

I can't recall the exact details, but there's a 30g USPS limit I think. IIRC, that's why some stores don't carry the current Estes E.

Doug


The USPS (Parcel Post) limit is somthing like 31 or 32 grams prop.

That is why we're seeing a lot of 'non-full' F motors from Aerotech, is they can ship Parcel Post.

( and reloads with smaller grains,ala Loki H with 4 x 31 grams).

still, even with a 20.00 Hazmat fee, they'd sell well - look at the E9 (or Aerotech Reloads).

those are motors for the 'hard core' flyers, who'd just buy a bunch and pay the fees - or stock up at a launch and let thier dealer pay the hazmats :-)

oh well... we can dream.... not sure we'll see any corburners,or large motors again, but you never know .

~ AL
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  #14  
Old 10-27-2005, 04:29 PM
snaquin snaquin is offline
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I was considering getting some of the new F42-8T for a cluster since they are blue thunder and ignite fast. Propellant weight is 27 grams per motor so Parcel Post with no HazMat is an attractive perk. At $35.95 for two motors retail and you only get 55 N-sec. a pop ..... not very much bang for your buck though.

When I burn up the F and G motors I have in my stash I guess I'm in trouble and will have to shell out some $$$
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  #15  
Old 10-27-2005, 05:27 PM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
At $35.95 for two motors retail and you only get 55 N-sec. a pop ..... not very much bang for your buck though.
No, it's not. In fact, it's about 3Ns per buck. Dang, you can readily get Estes D-motors at around $10/3-pack. That's about 5.1Ns per buck, quite a bit better value.

But until some other vendor(s) steps up to the D-E-F-G mid-power plate, AT is pretty much the only game in town. The few G motors in high-power cases (IE, the 1-grain Cesaronis) aren't competitive. (Nor would be the 1 and 2-grain AT EZ-access 29mm motors.)

Ellis Mountain has produced some interesting stuff, but not mainstream enough, nor complete enough, nor reliable enough. I so want to see him succeed, but he needs motors that are easier to light, that come with ignitors, and are much less cato-prone. Nevertheless, he is an alternative source for E, F and G motors. Just not gaining much mind share yet.

Anyway, in my mind, we ought to be able to get E-F-G AP motors for 5-6Ns per buck. That'd be a full E for about $7. And an F42 at $10 (each).

Doug
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  #16  
Old 10-27-2005, 06:55 PM
snaquin snaquin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Ellis Mountain has produced some interesting stuff, but not mainstream enough, nor complete enough, nor reliable enough. I so want to see him succeed, but he needs motors that are easier to light, that come with ignitors, and are much less cato-prone. Nevertheless, he is an alternative source for E, F and G motors. Just not gaining much mind share yet.

Anyway, in my mind, we ought to be able to get E-F-G AP motors for 5-6Ns per buck. That'd be a full E for about $7. And an F42 at $10 (each).

Doug


I'll buy those Quest 18mm D motors if they have a reasonable price and I really hope they do.

I have three of the Ellis G35-10 29mm single use motors in my range box that I picked up from Al's Hobby Shop at the Southern Thunder in Manchester, TN in May but I haven't tried them out yet. He had every available Ellis E, F & G available for sale at the launch.

I hope the E, F & G motors in Ellis don't behave like some of the HPR motors because I'd like to try some more.

(This is off topic but this past weekend I used an Ellis I motor that blew the head end so I know what you mean about "Cato-Prone")

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p...ePostFlight.JPG

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p...9LoadedRail.jpg

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p...AuraI69Cato.jpg
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TRA# 677 L2
NAR# 85518 L2
SAM# 0052

🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals
🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee
🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate
🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim
🚀 Stay Tuned For Fall 2021 Launch Dates
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  #17  
Old 10-27-2005, 08:17 PM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
Wow, your I69 made it into the air. Mine never got off the pad. Cato'd at ignition, destroying the rocket on its maiden non-flight. (LDRS 2002)

This is one of those ideas that could work if Robert would have re-spun before there were so many dissatifsfied customers. He went to fiberglass cases after mine, but apparently
it's still cato-prone, and has been discontinued (decert'd too?).

Robert likes long burning, high performance motors, and that's what he builds. Kinda the HPR equivalents of TVM's Medalist motors. It's a propellant optimized for high ISP so there's not much smoke. Unfortunately, the typical rocketeer likes smoke, flames - especially colored ones, sparks and noise, all performance robbing but thrill enhancing attributes.

While I'm not suggesting he go Animal, he coulda detuned the I69 some, making it burn a little faster with a bigger (less-cato prone) nozzle and a bit more smoke for tracking. So it's an I90 instead of an I69. Maybe he's done that now; I haven't been following the line much lately. I just know there are now lots of folks who've been PO'd that won't be going back to find out what's new or improved. I think his line had lots of potential, but I'm afraid the brand has been critically wounded in the marketplace.

Doug
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  #18  
Old 10-27-2005, 08:30 PM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
I'll buy those Quest 18mm D motors if they have a reasonable price and I really hope they do.
I hope they sell well. And they should if they're priced right. I don't think AT ever aimed their 18 and 24mm motors at Estes with the idea of shipping volumes, but I expect Quest to be doing that. So they'll have to be price competitive and hence reasonably affordable.

Quote:
I have three of the Ellis G35-10 29mm single use motors
Yeah, I've got a G37 motor and an H50 PAD he gave me on warranty exchange for the I69, and I'm looking forward to flying both of them...after I figure out what I'm gonna fly them in

Doug
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  #19  
Old 10-28-2005, 08:54 PM
Green Dragon Green Dragon is offline
AL Swackhammer , power freak
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Yeah, I've got a G37 motor and an H50 PAD he gave me on warranty exchange for the I69, and I'm looking forward to flying both of them...after I figure out what I'm gonna fly them in

Doug


we've flown quite a few of the Ellis G motors without any problems * knock on wood *

I think the trouble with Ellis is, as noted, he likes to push the envelope, same happened with the old Ravenna motors, they kept tweaking them and lost reliability.

the trouble wioth the I69 and J228 specifically, is they;re much too long for the dia, and have erosive burning, making them faster ( ie: and throats larger), would make them more errosive, and still cato prone.

I have a pile of the F20 motors right now, but have yet to fly one , and the E's are always sold out here in the northeast, dealers can't keep any in stock, so must be working for someone .

the E's pretty reasonable, too at ,like 21.00 a 3 pak ( 7.00 right where noted. ).

costs are getting crazy, that's for sure, where's the 5.00 a pak D's I used to fly , lol .... course after being a dealer for years, I'm spoiled......wholesale pricing is nice to fly ...

~ AL
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  #20  
Old 02-06-2008, 01:21 AM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Wow, the dust is thick in here.
So, any of you guys with connections have any news on when we might be seeing this Quest D I've heard so much about?
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