Tonite the U.S. Senate killed any hope of assistance for the U.S. auto companies.

Almost a trillion dollars to bail out Wall Street.

But not a dime for the Arsenal of Democracy.

Not a dime.

Wow.

When it costs twice as much to build an American car thanks to the Unions, then I think the companies need to rethink their strategy. That 'arsenal' is little more than a boondoggle now. Maybe Toyota will buy up GM and Chrysler...cheap.
Allen

The market is going to go to hell today.

I'm expecting 1000 point drop.

I hope I'm wrong. But I don't think so.

__________________
Mystical Rockets
Blasting off into the heavens
http://www.mysticalrockets.com

Yeah, I agree that the market will tank today further eroding the retirement plans of most Americans. I don't agree that bail-outs should be done, however, I find it interesting that our government was so quick to throw money at their fatcat friends on Wall Street but can't even manage a small fraction of that to help the working class. Our leaders - on both sides of the isle - are woefully out of touch with mainstream America.

I'd like to believe that this fiasco will be enough to get people to vote some of these *******s out of office but the realist in me says that the vast majority of the voters will continue to elect the same people they always have. It will continue to get worse until the voters wake up.

My plan for the last few elections and into the foreseeable future is to vote against the incumbent.

Mario

Edit: While I stand behind my earlier comments I'm now been able to read more specifics on what happened. It appears that it was the UAW's refusal to bring wages in-line with US employees of foreign auto companies that put the kibosh on the deal. It looks like the union plan is to bleed the auto companies dry to the very end - an end that may now be much closer than they realize.

MP

Exactly. The blame is squarely on the UAW's refusal to budge a single inch. However, everybody with a political agenda will place the blame squarely on the govt.

__________________
I love sanding.

I think there is probably a more systemic problem with American labor other than to bring "wages in-line with US employees of foreign auto companies ". It has more to do with the entitlement attitudes of the workers. I think that when many of the auto companies came under labor unions, they were in a position to make the type of concessions we see today, however in a more competitive market, the margins just aren't there and no one can afford the demands labor places on the companies. Not withstanding the huge salaries and other things the Execs get. The bottom line is, these companies need to fall into the natural ebb and flow of the free market.

My guess is that the auto companies will get their money from the original 700B that started this whole bail-out mentality. At least that way, we won’t get fleeced by all those other “tag-ons” the House put on the Auto Bail-out proposal.

Don't believe that the bailout would have protected even one person from the working class. Even if they got the bailout, the auto execs were calling for over 10,000 layoffs. The only jobs that are really protected by a bailout are the executives. Without a bailout, the respective boards of directors will be more likely to "make adjustments" in the front office to prevent such a fiasco from happening again.



Than again, that's what we thought when we bailed out Chrysler in 1982. I though SOMEBODY would have learned SOMETHING from a very similar situation.

I guess what they learned was if they screw up really, really big, thy won't have to really fix their problems because the government will come to their rescue.

I'm afraid that a bailout will just enable people who have already made poor decisions to continue to make more poor decisions.

Exactly,,John. What I don't understand is why the media doesn't talk about the earlier bailout's. The bailout saved Chrysler but they sure didn't learn from their mistakes. As soon as they got the money it was business as usual.
As far as the unions are concerned someone should remind them that 100% of nothing is NOTHING!





Mario,, What we really need to do is vote for the one the other politicians and media attack. Usually the one other politicians are against is probably the best one for us.

Best example of that is Jimmy Stewart in "Mr Smith goes to Washington"
For those that have never seen the movie go get it, watch and you will see my point.

Blame the unions is easy and cheap. Blaming the greedy executives who get the several million dollar bonuses is not on the agenda? It is also interesting to note it is these same executives who chose the strategies and designs that helped tank the industry. How is it these idiotic bloodsuckers espae evrybodies wrath?
Cheers
fred

Because the thread was originally about the bailout itself, not what made them need the bailout in the first place. The UAW refused to negotiate, therefore congress decided to pull the plug.

As for not blaming the execs, I think the posts that referred to Chrysler's 1980's bailout are pointed directly at the execs who didn't learn from those mistakes and let the company get into another predicament.

__________________
I love sanding.