Last week I received a back-in-stock notice from Apogee on the Cosmodrome Black Brant II. I'm glad I acted on it right away because they were sold out again within a day. The kit arrived on Saturday (Apogee is always quick to fill orders) and I'm very impressed with the quality of this kit. The balsa nose cone and boat tail are superb. What really impressed me is the nose cone came with a tip protector to keep it from breaking during shipping. I will probably fiberglass the nose cone to add some ding resistance.

Now for the tough choices. Do I go with the included launch lugs or replace them with rail buttons. Do I use the included motor retainer or replace it with an Aero Pac retainer. Do I go for a competition scale finish or sport scale.

Again, this kit looks awesome and I plan on starting soon.


Rob

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Friends Don't let Friends Do TRF

I just received a set of both mini and micro rail buttons from rail-buttons.com. I also bought a 1500mm length of makerbeam from Amazon (10mmX10mmX1500mm) which works with micro buttons. The makerbeam is more rigid than a 1/4" rod and the micro buttons are much less conspicuous than a typical 1010 button and especially a standard launch lug. My plan is to use the micro buttons with a stainless screw as opposed to a plastic screw on my heavily customized SV build and after seeing them 1st hand, I may well use the micro buttons on ALL builds going forward. They are available in white or black and Randy has indicated that other colors might be forthcoming. Once again, I really like the small size of the button from a visual perspective and the excellent rigidity of the 10X10 rail.

David

David,

Thanks for the supplier link. I'm definitely leaning toward micro rail buttons and having them in black and white is a real plus since the scale paint scheme on this bird is an alternating black and white roll pattern.


Rob

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Friends Don't let Friends Do TRF

1. Think about where you will fly it. Do they provide rails? Do you have your own rail? Are you going to have to carry your own rail to most launches and is it worth that last few degrees off vertical that rod whip may cause? Are you moving toward competition scale where big lugs are a hindrance? Answer those questions and decide whether it is worth the effort to do rail buttons.

2. I'm not familiar with the retainers, so your answer depends on what they look like, how easy they are to use, and how that will factor in with question #3. One is already included so price factors in.

3. If you do scale, go big or go home. Are you willing to do all the little detail work? Do you love sanding? Are you going to make sure all of your diameters and lengths are accurate enough you wouldn't be ashamed for Peter Alway to have a look at it? Are you going to keep the scale the gap at the root on the boat tail? Are you going above and beyond waterfowl and the words Black Brant for your decals? If you answer no to any of these, consider sport scale. If two or more answers are no, definitely sport scale.

If you plan to fly the crap out of it, also consider sport scale. Remember, the bigger the model, the more detail you have to include for competition scale quality. It will require more than the Estes model.

This devil's advocate stuff is kinda fun.

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I love sanding.

Tbzep,

Thanks for the advice. I like the way you laid out your logic. I've been reading over the instructions and made some decisions.

I've definitely decided on sport scale and focus on doing a good and reasonably accurate paint scheme. I want this rocket to look good, but not so good I'll be afraid to fly it.

I plan on flying it mostly on reloads for my venerable Aero Tech 29/40-120 case (costs more than the kit!), so a motor retainer is a must. I am also going with the included motor retainer. It's a 4-40 threaded rod that glues to the motor tube and uses a fender washer and nut to hold the motor in place, simple and effective. The fin configuration will allow the rocket to stand on its fins without the bold interfering.

Still debating launch lugs vs. mini rail buttons. Buttons will require a mod to the rear of the rocket, but it won't be too bad.


Rob

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Friends Don't let Friends Do TRF

That part really boils down to convenience. How often will you have issues getting a rail to launch from at an organized launch, or if you have your own rail, do you plan to set it up at every launch? If so, I'd say go for it. If you want to go to club launches, LDRS's etc. and be able to go to the shortest line every time, go with lugs.

1/4" can whip a little, but not bad as long as it is 4-6 ft and the model isn't heavy. Anything larger in diameter will be pretty solid unless the rod is unusually long.

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I love sanding.

Here is my Estes V-2. Uses micro buttons. Flies great off a 900mm MakerBeam rail. I'll get a 1500mm rail at some point, but the rigidity of these rails means you can fly stuff larger than would seem possible. I trimmed the fins to scale, and added about 1 oz. of weight to the nose cone. Perfect, arrow-straight flight.

Also, I modified one of my rails (you get two from Amazon) to fit into a 3/16" pad, so I can easily swap it out with my club's standard pad with rod. I epoxied MakerBeam rail into brass tubing, then turned a dowel to fit the bottom end of the brass tube. Bored a hole in dowel on lathe to accept a piece of 3/16" stainless steel rod into dowel.

I also bought the mini buttons and 20mm rail from Randy. It's 4 feet in length and amazingly rigid. I bought a Rockwell JawStand to use as a base. Will like set it up to hold the MakerBeam rail as well.

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Lee Reep
NAR 55948

Projects: Semroc Saturn 1B, Ken Foss Designs Mini Satellite Interceptor
In the Paint Shop: Nothing! Too cold!
Launch-Ready: Farside-X, Maxi Honest John, Super Scamp

Lee,
I looking at your V-2 pic, it appears that you used the standard plastic screws with the micro buttons, is this correct? My plan is to swap the plastic for stainless (Randy included them at my request) which I plan to paint white or black to match the button (will use both colors on my SV due to the roll pattern. Also, I am curious what, if any, additional reinforcement you did for the buttons?

As I have the 1500mm rail in hand, I can confirm it is more rigid than a 1/4" rod, but not quite as robust as a standard 1010 rail. I plan to convert one of my two 1500mm rails in the same manner as you outlined so as to allow me to insert it into a standard 3/16 rod pad. My local club uses a rectangular tube/thumbscrews for their rails which will adapt to the makerbeam with no issues, but having both options is a good thing.

One last thing, do you find that the micro buttons seem maybe just a tad tighter in the makerbeam rail than typical? I don't see the really snug fit as a problem, but the fit I am finding definitely adds a tad of friction to the equation.