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  #1  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:04 PM
metlfreak metlfreak is offline
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Default Estes Gemini Titan #K21 Clone Possible?

Would it be possible to clone this Rocket? I have really became interested in building the Gemini but it looks like some of the parts are going to be hard to fab. Such as the engine bells, finding out the diameter of the dowels used to make the engine assembly, and the capsule its self. I have tons of questions and need to figure out alot on this one. Has anyone been able to clone this rocket with out to much trouble? Lastly here is a link to the parts semroc has, where can I get the parts they dont have? Or does someone have better plans all together than semroc? anyway I would love to build this rocket I saw Sheris rockets has a really nice one but I simply cant afford the bugger right now. Sorry for all the questions guys but any answer would be awsome. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:56 PM
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mojo1986 mojo1986 is offline
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Actually, I think this is a fairly straightforward clone. It's been a while since I've seen the K-21 plans, but I think most, if not all, of the parts are readily available from Semroc or BMS. If you check the K-21 plans (try the JimZ site) and have any questions about specifications of parts listed, come back here with your questions. Specs are readily available in the Estes 1974 Parts Catalog. The engine nozzles were just paper shrouds. Worst case scenario is you can't locate a nose cone, and if that's the case, I have an original.

Joe

PS...............oh yeah, and Gordy at Excelsior has a complete body wrap decal............how cool is that??
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2010, 06:24 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
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BMS sells the cone.

Almost everything else is standard. BT-60, BT-70, BT-20, some couplers cut to size, some dowels.

The only parts that are not, to my knowledge, made commercially are the centering rings. They are used to mount two BT-20 motor mount tubes in a BT-70 . . . but they do it at an angle!

Oh, dear. Scans of the rings are not in the JimZ plan set. You will need to ask about those.

Also: The butyrate fins are a real pain to assemble.
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2010, 07:56 PM
Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
The only parts that are not, to my knowledge, made commercially are the centering rings. They are used to mount two BT-20 motor mount tubes in a BT-70 . . . but they do it at an angle!

Oh, dear. Scans of the rings are not in the JimZ plan set. You will need to ask about those.

Also: The butyrate fins are a real pain to assemble.

Never fear, Kurt Schachner is here. Kurt re-drew the decals, the wrap and all the templates (including the canted motor mounts) on his decal page located on YORS. Here's a direct link to it:

http://www.rocketshoppe.com/decals/Gemini_Titan.pdf

All one needs to do is search this forum for K-21 building tips (it's been talked about many times in the past). Kurt talks about how he made his clear plastic fin can.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2010, 10:53 PM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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Semroc makes a much more accurate version of the nose cone.

There was a kitchen-table company that sold a clone of the K-21 kit a few years ago, and I bought one.

It was reasonably accurate, used the BMS cone, the centering rings were laser cut supposedly from Kurt Schachner's plans, though the holes were slightly closer together. The JT-50 couplers for the engine mounts were too long, and the 2050 rings were made of a much thicker material, meaning the engine mounts didn't go together quite right.

One nice feature it had was a single wrap around stickon decal for the black markings.
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2010, 07:30 AM
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GregGleason GregGleason is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl

... There was a kitchen-table company that sold a clone of the K-21 kit a few years ago ...



Now there's a quote you don't see everyday.



Do you know what the story is there, Roy?

Greg
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2010, 08:25 AM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregGleason
Now there's a quote you don't see everyday.



Do you know what the story is there, Roy?

Greg



Just to be clear, a "kitchen-table" company is a small company that primarily exists at the kitchen table. With business conducted there, inventory in the den or garage, kit assembly in the dining room....

.... In other words, like 80% of the rocket companies in existance.

Anyway, there are others here that know the story of Pimp Daddy Rocketry (or later, just PDR) better than I do, but AFAIK they were a father-son (mostly father) operation that manufactured a few clone kits around 2005-7 or so. In 2008 the father started having health problems and then problems keeping up with the business (filling orders, responding to customer service calls, etc). The son stepped in for awhile and promised to get everything on track, but the company just faded away. That's all I know.
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2010, 08:46 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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As far as PDR goes, I bought several of their kits including the K21 Gemini-titan and they were of nice quality with BMS parts (one notch below Semroc) and were a good value for the money.
Unfortunately when they closed up shop, they did so stringing along those that they owed orders to. Most of those persons simply got stiffed out of their money due to numerous garbage excuses.
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2010, 10:34 AM
metlfreak metlfreak is offline
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Its been almost a year since Ive been on here.....Is Gordy Sandman? I remember Sandman helped me with some upscale RamJet decals......I havent painted and finished that rocket yet but the decals are perfect. Secoundly what is BMS web sight, im not familiar with them. Lastly I think I can pull this off, all but the motor mount and engine bells, and the clear fins, those are going to be tricky. I did read on here about how someone molded and made the fins im going to search for that thread again and see if I can find it.
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2010, 10:39 AM
Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Yes, Gordy is Sandman. You can find his website here:

http://excelsiorrocketry.com/

BMS can be found here:

http://www.balsamachining.com/

As others have noted though, the parts quality is best at Semroc:

http://www.semroc.com/Store/Scripts/default.asp
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