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  #11  
Old 05-06-2016, 04:43 PM
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I would love to read a comprehensive history of model rocketry that covers all this stuff. So much interesting historical knowledge scattered about.

The linked article by G. Harry Stine certainly fills in the earliest bits (thanks for that link!) but I'd like to know the whole story. Wikipedia has a very high-level overview, but not much detail.
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  #12  
Old 05-06-2016, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil_w
I would love to read a comprehensive history of model rocketry that covers all this stuff. So much interesting historical knowledge scattered about.
The linked article by G. Harry Stine certainly fills in the earliest bits (thanks for that link!) but I'd like to know the whole story. Wikipedia has a very high-level overview, but not much detail.


There's more in the Vern Estes magazine interviews:

http://www.vernestes.com/Published%20Articles.htm
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  #13  
Old 05-06-2016, 09:43 PM
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Here is another view of the Stine/Carlisle story - in the form of scans of the letters they exchanged: http://www.questaerospace.com/q-stineletters.htm

The actual letters are now part of the Museum of Flight's Stine Archive collection.
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  #14  
Old 05-07-2016, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcmbanjo
I understand that MPC came out with the 13mm Minijets first.
Then Estes, then Centuri.
AVI was MRI first (Myke Bergenski). Myke joined MPC and came out with the 13mm engines.
After MPC (under General Mills) got out of the rocket business, he started AVI (Aerospace Vehicles Inc.) selling the original MPC kits and supplies.
Thanks for clarifying that. I had it in my head that Centuri had them out before Estes, but looking at an old list I have, it's clear Estes had 13's in their catalogs a year before Centuri.

(And, as it turns out, it appears they were both following suit with MPC.)

Doug

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  #15  
Old 05-07-2016, 10:35 AM
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G. Harry wrote many historical articles for his "Old Rocketeer" columns in Model Rocketry magazine...here are some I found

The Old Rocketeer: The First Model Rockets May 70
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/Mo...02n08_05-70.pdf

The Old Rocketeer: Engines Full Circle July 71
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/Mo...03n09_07-71.pdf

The Old Rocketeer: Return to Green Mountain January 70
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/Mo...02n04_01-70.pdf

The Old Rocketeer: The First Clustered Models February 71
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/Mo...03n05_02-71.pdf

The Old Rocketeer: Letter to a Young Rocketeer December 71
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/Mo...04n03_12-71.pdf

The Old Rocketeer: The Manufacturers February 69
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/Mo...01n04_02-69.pdf

The Old Rocketeer: Plastic Scale Modeling September 69
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/Mo...01n11_09-69.pdf
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  #16  
Old 05-07-2016, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Thanks for clarifying that. I had it in my head that Centuri had them out before Estes, but looking at an old list I have, it's clear Estes had 13's in their catalogs a year before Centuri.
(And, as it turns out, it appears they were both following suit with MPC.)
Doug.


Rocketguy101 found the "Old Rocketeer" articles from Model Rocketry Magazine.
This article in particular:

The Old Rocketeer: Engines Full Circle July 71
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/Mo...03n09_07-71.pdf
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2016, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
I was under the impression that Centuri drove the development of the 13mm motors, and that Estes was following suit. Granted, Centuri also had tubes of the same dimensions.

Doug

.
This was before my time, but I read somewhere (it might have been in G. Harry Stine's final article in "Sport Rocketry"--it was intended to be the first in a series on the hobby's history, but he died before he could write the others) that MMI's first motors--which Orville Carlisle hand-pressed himself--were 0.500" (soft-converted to 13 mm) in diameter (I don't know their length), and that they wanted either Brown (Brown Engineering?) or Vern Estes to make them that size. But either Brown or Estes (I'm not sure which; I think it might have been Brown) suggested using the commonly-available 0.69" x 2.75" (soft-converted to 18 mm x 70 mm) paper casing for the "Buzz Bomb" firework piece instead, since they were cheaper than the 0.500" tubes (which would have been "special order" items at the time). So:

If this is correct, the 0.69" x 2.75" "A"/"B"/"C" motor casing size became a de facto standard after Estes started making them by the millions with the Mabel machines. This means that the later creation of 0.500" mini motors (of various lengths, although Estes'--and later, Centuri's--1.75" casing length [soft-converted to 45 mm] eventually became the de facto standard length for mini motors) was an example of "going back to the hobby's roots," since the very first model rocket motors were 0.500" in diameter. Plus:

I refer to the soft conversion (from inches to millimeters) because model rocket motors made in other countries are often (if not always) hard-converted. For example, the Chinese-made "Sky" model rockets have motor mounts that are sized to accept 18 mm x 70 mm motors; Estes and Quest "18 mm x 70 mm" motors, which are actually 17.526 mm x 69.85 mm, fit slightly loosely in the "Sky" models' motor mounts (enough that wrapping the motors with paper or tape is advisable in some cases, to ensure enough ejection charge pressurization to pop the nose cone off and deploy the parachute).
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Last edited by blackshire : 05-08-2016 at 06:38 AM.
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2016, 01:42 PM
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The link above that has "full circle" in the name tells that story (second one in rocketguy101's post)....pointing out the the Minijets were essentially the same size as the original handmade Carlisle motors.
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2016, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
The link above that has "full circle" in the name tells that story (second one in rocketguy101's post)....pointing out the the Minijets were essentially the same size as the original handmade Carlisle motors.
Thank you (I wasn't able to open any YORF links last night). Not having been a NAR member until much later, those early magazines are all new to me.
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