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  #1  
Old 01-25-2011, 11:07 PM
Tedster's Avatar
Tedster Tedster is offline
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Default Aerotech History

I have what I believe is the first Aerotech catalog when the RMS system was introduced at NARAM 32 in Dallas. It is a plastic ring bound ultra cool catalog from ISP. Inside are engineering drawings and prices for each system.

My only problem is there is a letter in the front dated 2/26/91. I thought NARAM 32 and the introduction of ISP motors was in 1990.

Didn't they lose one of the first reloadable casings in the corn field across the street and offered a reward for finding it?

I want to sell this on eBay (I want to buy something!) and my facts need to be straight

Tedster
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedster
I have what I believe is the first Aerotech catalog when the RMS system was introduced at NARAM 32 in Dallas. It is a plastic ring bound ultra cool catalog from ISP. Inside are engineering drawings and prices for each system.

My only problem is there is a letter in the front dated 2/26/91. I thought NARAM 32 and the introduction of ISP motors was in 1990.

Didn't they lose one of the first reloadable casings in the corn field across the street and offered a reward for finding it?

I want to sell this on eBay (I want to buy something!) and my facts need to be straight

Tedster


I remember you and I were talking about education stuff in the McDonalds roughly across the highway and a little to the west when the flight occurred. I was so miffed that I missed it.

I thought they thought the motor ended up somewhere on the main field. I don't remember any talk of it being across the street.
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  #3  
Old 01-26-2011, 08:06 AM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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U.S. Rockets released its first public information on its then exclusive and revolutionary single snap ring reloadables at Ocotillo, CA (now Plaster Blaster) in 1-90 which was written up in two variants. An article in the San Diego Tripoli newsletter and a reprint in HPR magazine with several of the names and facts changed to shift ownership of the design from U.S. Rockets where it rightly belonged, to Kosdon which was later ratified by TRA President Rogers (voted in by a screwy and secret proxy vote - he voted himself in!). This is preamble to the response to your question. Rogers and Kosdon were former partners in a motor making operation with USR as the sole customer since they managed to sell 150% of the production capacity of each and every motor maker at that time.

The next Ocotillo launch mid-year 1990 one of Gary's customers showed up with the blueprints of the RMS system, and suggestions for pre-sales. Upon checking, none were either certified or even certifiable because the rules to do so did not exist, and besides that the H&S codes in CA and other states were modified years prior at the effort of GHS to make specific provisions for model rocketry inclusive of the religious meme of no assembly and single use only. That still exists today in many states. NFPA codes conflict with that, but do not have the legal authority to superceed state H&S codes.

Gary wanted to get a jump on the market, rules and certifications be ****ed, so released RMS before any DOT approvals were given and TRA certifications took almost 2 years to materialize AFTER the product was shipping. So the date confusion is real and one might say intentional.

I am sure you can find a way to cull enough details from this factual presentation to find some cheery, positive things, to say to sell an artifact. I doubt they care about the drama since it didn't hurt them. But it hurt many people and contributed to a fairly large reduction in HPR growth. And a decade long lawsuit where in the end they were ordered to return everything, but, surprise, there was nothing to return.

I do find it phunnie as heck the first public RMS case was lost on its first flight!

Just Jerry

Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 01-26-2011 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:52 AM
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I recall we had our first local exposure to Aerotech RMS technology at our fall launch at our south Georgia field in October, 1990. I then purchased my first 29mm hardware set in January, 1991.

Earl
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:25 PM
Bravo52 Bravo52 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
But it hurt many people and contributed to a fairly large reduction in HPR growth.

Just Jerry


Jerry , I consider you a trove of information but sometimes confusing. Not sure what you mean by this....

Is it that the problems (legal) that ensued cause a delay in growth? I mean parochially, it seems the RMS revolutionized HPR...

Is that too simplistic?

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Old 01-26-2011, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo52
Jerry , I consider you a trove of information but sometimes confusing. Not sure what you mean by this....

Is it that the problems (legal) that ensued cause a delay in growth? I mean parochially, it seems the RMS revolutionized HPR...

There was an active effort to kill the USR product line, both reloadables and SU by TRA (Kelly, Rogers, others). That is a fact.

There was an active effort to assist Kosdon and Rosenfield. That is a fact. Still is.

Neither Rosenfield nor Kosdon were doing a single thing to increase the size of the market. They were just leeching off the launches already going by myself and a half a dozen organizers out there.

When they effectively put me out of business I no longer had any incentive to host or pioneer the 20 or so launches a year, since launches themselves cost, not make money. I opted to stop selling the now suddenly and retroacvtively decertified motors to affiliated clubs at all with considerable user whining about that. Kosdon and Teeling were all to anxious to pass off the stuff they took from me as my product causing confusion (real or feigned) by TRA that I had somehow not IMMEDIATELY conformed with the unlawful decertificartion without any notice or time allowance whatsover. Which I did.

I had regular attendance of Fest launches in the thousands with no required club affiliation and no formal sponsorship by either NAR or TRA of the events.

As Kosdon himself later told me when I attended one of his launches with 5-10 folks there, "it sure was a lot better when you were doing it".

My measurement for "resurgence" will be when about 20k folks are "certified" to fly HPR. It used to be a whole bunch easier too. I predict it requires leaders not leeches to drag us there kicking and screaming. There will always be naysayers and mudslingers, but leeches are hard to shake.

Even though NAR or TRA affiliation immediately disqualifies you for access to USR motor products, which can be changed by the stroke of the pen at any time as demonstrated by the many machinations of TRA over Kosdon, the folks with no such affiliation or influence are flying better motors.

Jerry
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:50 PM
Bravo52 Bravo52 is offline
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Ok, got it...up to speed now. There seems to be a lot of angry folks over this and I have no knowledge to make an informed opinion ( I did read the post over on RP). I do appreciate the info.
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  #8  
Old 01-27-2011, 08:01 AM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Given the forum we are on, imagine this if you even can. Imagine the NAR is more like TRA, and the NAR President is more like Chuck Rogers and the Sport Rocketry editor is more like Bruce Kelly. Then imagine this scenario.

Quest comes along with plans to make a range of BP motors and since his dad basically formed the NAR and he is well liked and hardly ever says anything political (like Kosdon or Rosenfield), NAR pres decides to take it in his own hands to give Quest a leg up over Estes who in this scenario is a bit more politically vocal about broken and silly things (Irvine) and decides the way to best help Quest is to decertify Estes engines for 3 years or so. No notice, no validated reason, no hearing, just decision by fiat.

What would happen to Estes in that scenario?

Would Quest really have solved their import issues any faster or would we simply have fewer choices overall?

What would happen to industry growth?

Even though it was a "club" decision, the certifications are a prerequisite for any and all mass-market sales in the USA thus precluding essentially 100% of them.

Now imagine NAR S&T made no public announcement about the decision, the decertification was strictly enforced at the club level and although the vendor was not notified of the decertification and only learned about it a couple of months after the fact, the club took the liberty to inform several regulators of their decision on an instant basis, something they normally NEVER do, and that the magazine was under strict information control to present the resulting Estes engine shortage as an unfortunate happenstance we all wish will get fixed "soon".

I would never wish that on any firm and the main victims are the end users that just want more variety and a steady supply of their favorite products.

Jerry
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