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  #31  
Old 02-22-2011, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
OK Guys,

Think of it as the Soyuz the Russians would build if they would ever get around to upgrading the R-7.

.


Like this?? OL JR
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  #32  
Old 02-22-2011, 11:32 PM
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Or this?? OL JR
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  #33  
Old 02-22-2011, 11:35 PM
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Or these?? OL JR
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  #34  
Old 02-22-2011, 11:40 PM
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Or maybe some of these?? OL JR
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  #35  
Old 02-22-2011, 11:44 PM
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Or maybe even these?? LOL OL JR
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  #36  
Old 02-22-2011, 11:48 PM
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Or it might be these...

Neat stuff... OL JR
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  #37  
Old 02-23-2011, 12:36 PM
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Ah yes,

Angara, Aurora, Vulkan, Super Zenit, Rus-M, Kliper -- all still-born Russian projects with zero chance of getting built because the money doesn't exist to test and build the rockets and the necessary new infrastructure unless we Americans throw (more) money at the Russian space program.

Those would be the ones. But you left out the most likely candidates, Soyuz 2-3 and Soyuz 3. Look at the second and third pictures of your third post -- they are the bottom pieces of Soyuz 3. These newly reengined but aerodynamically identical pieces would be coupled with a high-energy Hydrogen/Oxygen third stage to seriously boost the performance of old R-7. Soyuz 2-3 is an interm step with only the core reengined with a Zenit engine. The only reason Soyuz 2-3 and 3 survive as potential projects is because they use the existing pad and infrastructure. Soyuz 3 would make a neat Future Space build. Hmm . . . .

I couldn't find any non-copyrighted pictures but imagine that the Soyuz core stage did not taper back down above the strap-ons but remained a constant diameter and then a new third stage of similar constant diameter was attached to this. Rather than four small nozzles, all stages now have a single large engine bell. Maybe somebody who is handy with a drawing program could whip something up based on an existing Soyuz drawing.
__________________
NAR 79743
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I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7

Last edited by MarkB. : 02-23-2011 at 12:52 PM.
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  #38  
Old 02-23-2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
Ah yes,

Angara, Aurora, Vulkan, Super Zenit, Rus-M, Kliper -- all still-born Russian projects with zero chance of getting built because the money doesn't exist to test and build the rockets and the necessary new infrastructure unless we Americans throw (more) money at the Russian space program.

Those would be the ones. But you left out the most likely candidates, Soyuz 2-3 and Soyuz 3. Look at the second and third pictures of your third post -- they are the bottom pieces of Soyuz 3. These newly reengined but aerodynamically identical pieces would be coupled with a high-energy Hydrogen/Oxygen third stage to seriously boost the performance of old R-7. Soyuz 2-3 is an interm step with only the core reengined with a Zenit engine. The only reason Soyuz 2-3 and 3 survive as potential projects is because they use the existing pad and infrastructure. Soyuz 3 would make a neat Future Space build. Hmm . . . .

I couldn't find any non-copyrighted pictures but imagine that the Soyuz core stage did not taper back down above the strap-ons but remained a constant diameter and then a new third stage of similar constant diameter was attached to this. Rather than four small nozzles, all stages now have a single large engine bell. Maybe somebody who is handy with a drawing program could whip something up based on an existing Soyuz drawing.


Yep... the Russians have had nearly as many fits and starts and go-nowhere projects since the Soviet Union fell as NASA has...

I heard about the Soyuz 3 but I don't have anything directly on it. I surf a lot at nasaspaceflight.com/forums and usually grab any interesting graphics or pics or studies that folks link to or attach... VERY interesting stuff!

I just figured I'd toss that stuff out there for anybody who was interested...

Here's a bit of humor... LOL Later! OL JR

http://www.theonion.com/video/nasa-...-by-2018,14400/
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  #39  
Old 02-24-2011, 06:41 PM
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OK

After our brief interlude . . . back to Shenzhou.

Starting at the bottom of the aeroshroud, I came up with:

.88" tapered section
1.5" cylindrical section
1.57" tapered section (under the stabilizers)
1.5" cylindrical section
1.19" conic section
.62" conic section - to BT-4 tubing

All of this is for a Series 20 based core at more or less 1/64th scale.
__________________
NAR 79743
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I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
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  #40  
Old 06-08-2011, 09:34 PM
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YAA-HOO!

My boss is on vacation so I got to spend a little extra time with the copy machine.

As I noted in the Russian Capsules build thread, I obtained the Shanghai Dragon 1/48 models of the CZ-2E and -2F. So, I copied the drawing from the instructions and blew it up to match the size of the photographic enlargement I made at the beginning of this thread.

Picture 1 shows these two side-by-side with my yardstick. Scale is about 1/63 with a planned core of Semroc Series 20 tubing. I choose this scale to more or less match that of my Russian R-7s. I blew up the instruction sheet by 200% and then a further 137% to get the proper size.

Not surprisingly, there were variations not only between the drawing and the picture but between the drawing and the model itself. The most obvious difference was the bi-conic portion of the aeroshroud. The drawing shows a shorter segment to the lower portion but the model and the picture (and my measurements in the post above) are almost exactly the same.

Also the model and the drawing show the fins for the LRBs which are visible in launch photos but apparently are not added to the rocket until shortly before launch and are not present on my picture which shows the vehicle leaving the VAB. Needless to say, I'm going to have slightly oversize fins on my flyer.

If anyone is interested, the plastic model would make a fantastic PMC (Plastic Model Conversion) as it is blow molded, very light (the plastic is translucent), well-detailed and would likely accomodate mid-power relatively easily. And as I mentioned, it 's over a meter tall.

Over the next few days, I'm going to post some measurements for my rocket and make a list of materials. I'm also going to send Sandman some measurements for the aeroshroud and the booster tops (Gordy, watch your mailbox). Again, the plan is 24mm power in Series 20 tubing.
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__________________
NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
I miss being SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Too numerous to count
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Alway/Nau BioArcas; Estes Expedition; TLP Standard
Repair/Rescue: Cherokee-D (2); Centuri Nike-Smoke; MX-774
On the Bench: 2650;
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7

Last edited by MarkB. : 06-08-2011 at 10:02 PM.
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