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  #41  
Old 09-25-2009, 02:24 PM
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I want to thank all of you very much for your help and offers to help! Now John, go and attend to your special requirements on this day--at the very least, you want to maintain spousal approval to post on the board! :-)
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  #42  
Old 09-25-2009, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brohm
For the avoidance of doubt, I'll offer up a photo here.


I would never doubt you!
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  #43  
Old 09-28-2009, 04:05 AM
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Another consideration for accurate Akela-1 clones (whether using Semroc/Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" parts or Estes Viking kits) is the nose cone color, which in the original Akela-1 kit was the unpainted red-pigmented plastic of the nose cone. (The Centuri Viking kit and the early production runs of Estes' version of the Viking kit also had red plastic nose cones.)

What shade/brand of spray paint best matches the red plastic color? For the Estes Viking BT-20 nose cones (now molded in white polystyrene), only enamel or acrylic paints could be used because lacquer paint would melt the plastic. For painting the Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" cast (white) polyurethane resin PNC-76 replica nose cones, lacquer should be safe to use, and it would of course also be safe to use on Semroc's balsa PNC-76 replica nose cones.
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http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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Last edited by blackshire : 09-28-2009 at 04:15 AM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
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  #44  
Old 09-28-2009, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Another consideration for accurate Akela-1 clones (whether using Semroc/Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" parts or Estes Viking kits) is the nose cone color, which in the original Akela-1 kit was the unpainted red-pigmented plastic of the nose cone. (The Centuri Viking kit and the early production runs of Estes' version of the Viking kit also had red plastic nose cones.)

What shade/brand of spray paint best matches the red plastic color? For the Estes Viking BT-20 nose cones (now molded in white polystyrene), only enamel or acrylic paints could be used because lacquer paint would melt the plastic. For painting the Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" cast (white) polyurethane resin PNC-76 replica nose cones, lacquer should be safe to use, and it would of course also be safe to use on Semroc's balsa PNC-76 replica nose cones.


I have a few original Akela-1 nosecones. If I can remember to do it, I'll compare some of my reds with the cones tonight. You should be able to use lacquer over a good primer.

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  #45  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I have a few original Akela-1 nosecones. If I can remember to do it, I'll compare some of my reds with the cones tonight. You should be able to use lacquer over a good primer.


Thank you for comparing your paint colors/brands with your Akela-1 nose cones, and for posting the PNC-76/Estes Viking nose cone comparison photo!

I am hesitant to apply lacquer over enamel, but paint formulations may have been changed a bit since my father told me in the early 1970s to never spray lacquer paint over dried enamel because the lacquer would attack the enamel coat and even produce a crinkle finish if the enamel wasn't completely dry (he said that enamel applied over dried lacquer works fine, though). I'm not particularly for or against lacquer, but with my luck the perfect color match for the red plastic nose cone may well be a lacquer paint. :-)
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #46  
Old 09-28-2009, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
...

I am hesitant to apply lacquer over enamel, but paint formulations may have been changed a bit since my father told me in the early 1970s to never spray lacquer paint over dried enamel because the lacquer would attack the enamel coat and even produce a crinkle finish if the enamel wasn't completely dry (he said that enamel applied over dried lacquer works fine, though). I'm not particularly for or against lacquer, but with my luck the perfect color match for the red plastic nose cone may well be a lacquer paint. :-)


Jason;

Unless paint formulations have in fact changed, one should never spray a lacquer over enamel. It almost always results in significant disappointment. Take the advice of your Dad.

He's also right that enamel over lacquer is just fine.

My experience with the resin cones from Moldin' Oldies is that they won't take a lacquer (specifically the old Krylon formulation). It wasn't that the resin would craze (like your concern with styrene plastic), but that the lacquer would pool (and yes. this was after the part was thoroughly washed and wiped down). Instead (after some sanding...), I found that a regular enamel, like Testors, would work fine. I found that I preferred the Testors Flat White as a primer for the Moldin' Oldies cones. Everything was fine after that.
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  #47  
Old 09-28-2009, 09:57 PM
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John, you just reminded me of something that had been gnawing at the back of my mind but that I couldn't quite bring forth as a conscious thought. Many years ago, a resin caster told me that dried lacquer paint has such poor adhesion to polyurethane resin that it is often possible to simply wipe the dried lacquer paint off a resin part!

When you sand the Sirius Rocketry "Moldin' Oldies" resin nose cones prior to painting, what grit size sandpaper (or sanding film) do you use? Also, do acrylic paints adhere well to them? (Not having an airbrush, I'll stick with enamel spray paint cans, but other model rocketeers who have airbrushes might prefer to use acrylic paints if they'll adhere to the resin nose cones.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brohm
Jason;

Unless paint formulations have in fact changed, one should never spray a lacquer over enamel. It almost always results in significant disappointment. Take the advice of your Dad.

He's also right that enamel over lacquer is just fine.

My experience with the resin cones from Moldin' Oldies is that they won't take a lacquer (specifically the old Krylon formulation). It wasn't that the resin would craze (like your concern with styrene plastic), but that the lacquer would pool (and yes. this was after the part was thoroughly washed and wiped down). Instead (after some sanding...), I found that a regular enamel, like Testors, would work fine. I found that I preferred the Testors Flat White as a primer for the Moldin' Oldies cones. Everything was fine after that.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #48  
Old 09-29-2009, 09:45 PM
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Sorry I didn't get this to you last night. I was out bush hogging until after 9:00 and never got around to sitting down in front of the computer. Here's my test strip. All these reds are over a white base coat. In real life they look more different than they show up on the image, probably due to me having to use the flash indoors. The closest on my strip is Krylon Banner Red (old formula). It isn't exact, but it's pretty close. The nosecone was never all that shiny from what I remember, but it's is over 30 years old, both it and my memory have dulled over the years.

Click for a bigger pic.

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  #49  
Old 09-29-2009, 11:59 PM
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Thank you very much! I fully understand--having once lived not too far from your location (in the Blue Ridge Mountains of rural northern Georgia), we had to regularly run the Gravely agricultural-size field mower around the property to keep the Poplar saplings in check.

If Krylon's new replacement formula for their Banner Red 2108 is close to the original, I'll use it. The red Centuri plastic nose cones were never very shiny; they were the equivalent of a semi-gloss red paint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Sorry I didn't get this to you last night. I was out bush hogging until after 9:00 and never got around to sitting down in front of the computer. Here's my test strip. All these reds are over a white base coat. In real life they look more different than they show up on the image, probably due to me having to use the flash indoors. The closest on my strip is Krylon Banner Red (old formula). It isn't exact, but it's pretty close. The nosecone was never all that shiny from what I remember, but it's is over 30 years old, both it and my memory have dulled over the years.

Click for a bigger pic.

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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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Last edited by blackshire : 09-30-2009 at 12:03 AM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
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  #50  
Old 09-30-2009, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Thank you very much! I fully understand--having once lived not too far from your location (in the Blue Ridge Mountains of rural northern Georgia), we had to regularly run the Gravely agricultural-size field mower around the property to keep the Poplar saplings in check.

If Krylon's new replacement formula for their Banner Red 2108 is close to the original, I'll use it. The red Centuri plastic nose cones were never very shiny; they were the equivalent of a semi-gloss red paint.


You're welcome. Remember to put it over a white base coat. Banner red is much darker over primer.
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