Terrible tragedy - a rocketeer dies mixing propellant. My heart goes out to the family, but I will never understand the desire for EX when commercial motors are available

http://mainlinemedianews.com/articl...a6207252724.txt

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road move beneath the chicken? Albert Einstein

You Can't break the laws of physics but they can break you. Christine McKinley


Dale Greene

Mentor, Penn Manor Rocket Club
VISIT SPAAR
2010 Calder Cup
The Old West
2009 Calder Cup

" Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act. " George Orwell

What a shame. From what I've read it sounds like the guy was a really nice person who was the victim of a terrible tragedy.

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I plan ahead that way I don't have to do anything right now.

Oh by the way, I'm not here just for the "olde" rocket discussions.

Firstly, he was not making rockets so much as newbie pyrotechnics. If only PGI membership was a pre-requisite to 6th grade, this would have never happened.

The same thing which motivates some to scratch build when there are so many fine rocket kits available commercially?


Bill

but I will never understand the desire for homemade__________ when commercial __________ is/are available.

ice cream
beer
vegetables
fruits
hot rods/automobiles
reloads/ammunition
cakes
pies
computers
rockets/kits
woodworking/furniture

The list goes on and on.

Edit: Bill, seems we think alike. I got interrupted in the middle of my post and didn't see yours.

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I love sanding.

While I am not an EX'er, I wonder if he was working on a typical EX APCP formulation? My guess (and that is all that it is) is that it was more of a non-APCP formula based on the blast.

Does anyone know if he was a member of a rocket club, or at least connected to one?

Regardless, it is very sad.

Greg

I actually would like to see EX rocketry as common and acceptable as reloading/handloading ammunition someday.
Most that say it does not save money have some connection to commercial rocket motors and just try to convince persons to not do it.


I reload all my metallic ammunition as the cost is roughly 5 to 20 cents on the dollar when compared to commercial ammunition depending on the calibre if you shop effectively for components.
Prices for commercial metallic ammunition for anything other than 22 rimfires is probably the biggest ripoff of ANY hobby in existence.

I reload for the following calibres:

357 Magnum
10mm Auto (which can be pushed safely FAR hotter than any commercial loading)
45 Auto
44 Magnum

223 Remington/5.56 NATO
300 Winchester Magnum
300 Weatherby Magnum
375 H&H Magnum
45/70 Government (which can be pushed safely FAR hotter than any commercial loading)
458 Lott

For example, commercially produced 458 Lott ammo costs roughly the outrageous $90.00 for a 20 round box of Hornady ammunition. I handload those 20 cases (reused brass is "free") with the same Hornady bullets, Hodgdon powder, and CCI primers for about $9 or about 10 cents on the dollar. That folks is a MAJOR ripoff by the ammo company. All the other major manufacturers of ammo are just as bad.

I think ANYBODY that shoots centrefire metallic ammunition even more than for casual sight-in and hunting once a year is a money-wasting FOOL if they do not handload.

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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

Many of my friends in the hobby cook a little propellant, almost exclusively APCP. Some do quite a bit. I've never been interested in it much, but I can see the appeal. That is, I can see the desire to want to drill down on the chemistry of propulsion and learn more about it. At that point, building some is the next step. After all, it is rocket science.

For me, I've never gotten around to it. I have so many other things in the queue I want to accomplish first. I need to get more electronic and dual deployments under my belt, some more air starts (staging and outboards), RC recovery, etc. All that interests me more than cooking propellant at this time.

On the subject of home brewed APCP, I'm under the impression this is by far the safest form of EX, that all the others present far greater danger (and surprisingly much lower Isp's). Given the seemingly lower risk, I'm anxious to learn more about what the victim was doing, what chemistry was involved, if he was using safe practices, etc.

And my heart goes out to his family. He was 22. I'm sure it's very difficult for them.

Doug

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YORF member #11

I don't think sugar-motor propellant is any more dangerous for EX than APCP if one is using low-temp melting Sorbitol or Dextrose as the fuel with the KN oxidizer.
Using hi-temp melting Sucrose is another story....
Probably the safest EX propellant would be KN-X which is KN03 mixed with a batch of epoxy for the fuel in correct proportions. Easily pourable with no heat involved. Can be easily mixed by hand with no metallic tools and next to zero risk in small batches. I have reloaded USED estes motors with this stuff with decent results.

Zinc-Sulfur (micrograin) propellant is an accident waiting to happen and hope he was not messing with that stuff; if he was I'm not surprised in the resulting disaster.

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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

I suppose potassium nitrate is as safe or safer than ammonium nitrate. OTOH, cooking ZnS is surely the fastest way to lose a hand or join the Darwin club. Milling and hammering/pressing BP is pretty scary, too, although I can at least see some experimentation there given enough safety equipment. (For example, coring motors using a slow-turning, human powered drill.)

I've heard lots of bad stories about sugar motor making, too, but it sounds like sorbitol makes it a lot safer.

The only other solid chemistries I've heard of are double-base, which I think fall in the same category as artillery propellant (ie, gun powder). I'll pass on that, too

Doug

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YORF member #11