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  #31  
Old 03-10-2010, 02:57 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
I imagine there are maybe two people on this forum who know what a Grand Ville is - you and me .


AHEM!!!
Let's just say I've done some reading on the subject. Had a neighbor with one, also.
BTW, the book has a pic of the '79 Formula that tried to kill me. Still a great looking car.
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Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

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  #32  
Old 03-10-2010, 03:05 PM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Forgot about Pontiac. Did it have square or round exhaust ports? IIRC, Pontiac used some motors straight from Olds with the square ports.
I would expect that to have occurred in the late 70's, after they started swapping motors around. But couldn't tell you about the ports - I ain't that knowledgeable

Dad had a 455 Rocket in his 1968 Olds 88

Doug

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  #33  
Old 03-10-2010, 03:23 PM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
AHEM!!!
Let's just say I've done some reading on the subject. Had a neighbor with one, also.
BTW, the book has a pic of the '79 Formula that tried to kill me. Still a great looking car.
I remember the wagons they had back then. When I met my wife in 1983, her family still had the Safari, IIRC, from the late 70's. Hearing folks complain in recent years about gas hog SUV's amuses me. Nothing sucked gas like a big block 70's land yacht wagon (Except maybe a fire breathing big block 60's wagon )



Doug

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  #34  
Old 03-10-2010, 04:26 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
I remember the wagons they had back then. When I met my wife in 1983, her family still had the Safari, IIRC, from the late 70's. Hearing folks complain in recent years about gas hog SUV's amuses me. Nothing sucked gas like a big block 70's land yacht wagon (Except maybe a fire breathing big block 60's wagon )



Doug

.

Now that you mention it, one of the guys I worked with, (and who was let go with me when the airline almost went under in the spring of '81,) had a big Pontiac wagon. Not sure of the model, but I think it was the one that had the rear door that dropped down when you opened it. It was metallic medium green with a white interior, same color combo as the one my Mom and Dad had picked out in 1973 but for the train wreck.
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Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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  #35  
Old 03-11-2010, 09:58 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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The 472 Cadillac Engine became the 500 Cadillac engine in around 1970. The Cadillac engine shared ZERO parts with any Olds V8 engines. The vlve-rocker cover shapes of the Caddy and Olds motors were similar, but NOT the same, which causes some confusion.
Prior to 1977, all GM vehicles used engines exclusively to their division; Chevy's got Chevy engines, Buicks got Buicks, Pontiacs got Pontiacs, Olds got Olds, Cadillac got Cadillac, EXCLUSIVELY. The only division that did not have their own engines was light-duty GMC truck. Light duty GMC trucks mostly got Chevrolet engines, but some got Pontiac engines.
In 1977, GM merged all powertrain divisions except Chevrolet and Cadillac.
The only divisions that kept exclusive powertrains was Chevy and Cadillac.
If one bought a Chevy, one was assured the car had a Chevy motor, same for Cadillac.
The one exception to this was the 1980 to 1981 Chevy Z28; one could intentionally order the Turbocharged 4bbl 301 Pontiac V8 in those cars.
Pontiac, Buick, and Olds started sharing all their engines along with the possibility of those 3 brands getting Chevrolet engines if one knew how to intentionally order them. This created the Mish-Mash of 301 pontiac V8's in LeSabres along with those turd 403 Olds motors in Trans Ams with automatic transmissions from 77-to 79. If one was smart, they knew all manual transmission 77 to 79 Trans Ams and Firebirds got genuine Pontiac engines (The 1979 Trans Am with 4sp stick trans was the last application of the Pontiac 400).
Up until the Northstar V8 was used optionally in the 2006 Buick Lucerne, no other GM product was allowed access to Cadillac engines.
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  #36  
Old 03-12-2010, 08:42 AM
lurker01 lurker01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1986
There is a very old Estes Sky Hook kit currently at auction on Ebay. I want to notify any potential bidders here on YORF that, although the kit is described as 'sealed in the bag', it has actually been opened and stapled shut. This will greatly reduce the value of this kit. I sent a question to the seller on the 22nd questioning the accuracy of his description but seller has not replied. Take a look......................

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

FAIR WARNING!!

Joe



Joe,

FYI for you and others here about stapled Estes kits...

They do exist, just very hard to come by.

If you have 62/63/early 64 kits, they are indeed stapled. I have a handful of such kits that were factory stapled and shipped this way directly from Estes. How do I know this, well I opened a sealed mailing box that contained Estes items (from an estate sale) and inside were a couple of 'direct from Estes' Astron Marks. Yes, they were stapled and yes they are mint from Estes. They date to ~1962/63. What is most interesting about them is that they come with the old hollowed out balsa nose block for a thrust ring... very nice.

There could be two reasons why early kits from Estes were stapled:

1) They didn't yet posses a heat sealer yet (applies to the very EARLY kit offerings)

or

2) The heat sealer was down, so they stapled kits until they got the sealer working again; same way the 'Blue Paper" Estes motors were released due to them running out of the brown motor paper for a very short time.

My money is on #1.

What I find so surprising from this group is that no one has picked up on the rarity of the Sky Hook that just closed on ebay ... it doesn't have a "K" number on the instructions and features a 'special price'! This is the kit version that you ordered from the Model Rocket News and not the commercial version that you later bought in 1964.

So not only isn't it opened, but its the 'pre-' version of the "K" kit catalog version; or the Model Rocket News kit (see MRN V3N4).

I believe that at the time MRN V3N4, Estes had decided to kit the Skyhook, but since the 1963 catalog had already been out for 7+ months, they offered the kit in MRN and then made space for it in the 1964 catalog.

So the take home message is: Don't assume that a stapled kit is an opened kit. Estes did in fact staple their early kits (I am not lying or making this up, as I have examples of their stapled kits direct from Estes). The early nascent kits had hollowed out balsa nose blocks for thrust rings and finding them is well a bit hard.
Also remember, Estes had paper hang tags that were stapled, but that was a later time and only deals with a handful of their kit offerings.

I know I know, go back under my rock ... so yes I will return. Hope you find the information above educational... or not.

Lurker01
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  #37  
Old 03-12-2010, 09:19 AM
Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker01
What I find so surprising from this group is that no one has picked up on the rarity of the Sky Hook that just closed on ebay ... it doesn't have a "K" number on the instructions and features a 'special price'! This is the kit version that you ordered from the Model Rocket News and not the commercial version that you later bought in 1964.

What's the eBay ID # of this auction? I'd like to look at it.
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  #38  
Old 03-12-2010, 10:30 AM
scigs30 scigs30 is offline
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I have an old Space Plane from Estes that is stapled........I just figured whoever bought it back in the day opened it and stapled it back. I bought it from a estate sell for 17 bucks. I am thinking about building it and leaving it unpainted for display. The Bt. is yellowish white whit no spirals, just one seam down the middle.
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  #39  
Old 03-12-2010, 10:48 AM
lurker01 lurker01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scigs30
I have an old Space Plane from Estes that is stapled........I just figured whoever bought it back in the day opened it and stapled it back. I bought it from a estate sell for 17 bucks. I am thinking about building it and leaving it unpainted for display. The Bt. is yellowish white whit no spirals, just one seam down the middle.


Scott,

The url to the auction is copied in the message at the top.

Scigs,

I would just build the clone and save the original for 'oooohs' and 'ahhhhhs'. Semroc and one other site sales very good Space Plane clones.

As for the yellow, convoluted manila paper tubes, those are known as BT-30s and they were hand made. It is my understanding that Glida (Mrs. Estes) would roll those tubes on their kitchen table by using a broom stick. I am not sure how long this particular manufacturing process continued but if you have it, Glida handled it in either it creation or kit packaging.
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  #40  
Old 03-13-2010, 02:21 PM
gerryfortin gerryfortin is offline
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Just a quick comment that this thread is very insightful on the possibility of stapled early Estes kits being authentic. The Sky Hook posting resulted in my not paying attention to the eBay listing afterwards. At least, the images are captured for the Estes kit database and when I have a chance to add more individual kit pages.
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