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  #11  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAL3
If by family I am including Big Bertha, Super Big Bertha, Mini Bertha and Baby Bertha, The original Ranger would probably belong in the group but the newer one probably not.

Does that make sense?
Yes. I think that sums it up very nicely.

Doug

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  #12  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:40 PM
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Thank you so much.
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:36 PM
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That original Big Bertha plan appeared in the April/May 1963 issue of Model Rocket News (which is also on JimZ - all four pages of it).

In that issue on another page it mentions "all eight" Estes kits, including the Ranger. So I think that confirms that the Ranger came first - but the gap was not very big.

It's interesting that that MRN plan of the Big Bertha doesn't have the partial stuffer tube we've seen in later versions - just a 2060 motor mount and lots of empty space for a parachute.

I'd say that - following the family metaphor - the K-6 Ranger is the father of all the Bertha variations. One of these days I'm going to have to actually build a Big Bertha. I have cloned the Ranger, and I've done several Baby Berthas. I also have evidence in my old rocketry stuff from the early '70s that I'd build a Mini Bertha...but I don't have it or remember building it. I do have a Big Bertha "work alike" in my much flown Semroc Vega....
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:25 PM
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I'm in the same boat - I've semi-cloned the Ranger from a Bertha (used the plastic nose cone and made a bulkhead from a coupler and two disks of foamcore), but I haven't actually built a Bertha yet. Gonna have to get around to that one of these days!
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:58 PM
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Let's take this a bit further.

Would the Semroc SLS Brighton be considered a member of the extended family?

If so, what others would you add?

By member of the family, I mean that the rocket is a clone or its design is a fairly straight forward derivative. By the "logic" I am using, the Baby Bertha is a member because:

1. It is a truncated Bertha
2. Estes obiously intended it hence the name.

I would not call the Big Betty a member. I would consider it a Quest "analog", it holds the same place in the Quest Stable.
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I used to tell Mom, "...I want to fly rockets when I grow up!"

She said, "Make up your mind, you can't do both!"
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAL3
Let me see if I can acurately summarize your considered opinion.

1. The original Ranger can be said to be part of the same family as the Big Bertha

2. The 1955 Ranger is at best, a distant relation and the family would do well not to claim it


If by family I am including Big Bertha, Super Big Bertha, Mini Bertha and Baby Bertha, The original Ranger would probably belong in the group but the newer one probably not.


Does that make sense?


Add to this the original Apogee and Apogee II kits. Notice the sustainer stages. They could be considered the 'grandparents' to the Mini Bertha.
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
Add to this the original Apogee and Apogee II kits. Notice the sustainer stages. They could be considered the 'grandparents' to the Mini Bertha.



I am not familiar with them to know but that begs the question of when the "family" branches off to create a new family.

I don't have an answer except for gut feel and YORF consensus.
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I used to tell Mom, "...I want to fly rockets when I grow up!"

She said, "Make up your mind, you can't do both!"
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAL3
I am not familiar with them to know but that begs the question of when the "family" branches off to create a new family.

I don't have an answer except for gut feel and YORF consensus.

Think of them as a Mini Bertha with clear payload section and a booster stage.

Click here for a quick look at the Apogee II.


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  #19  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAL3
I am not familiar with them to know but that begs the question of when the "family" branches off to create a new family.

I don't have an answer except for gut feel and YORF consensus.


Here they are, side-by-side, in glorious black & white: LINKY to Ninfinger
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  #20  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
Here they are, side-by-side, in glorious black & white: LINKY to Ninfinger



I see the family resemblance.

Could it then be said that a large part of the resemblance is due to the early stages of rocketry and there not being that many starting points for a young company?
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I used to tell Mom, "...I want to fly rockets when I grow up!"

She said, "Make up your mind, you can't do both!"
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