Check out this web site for information on the ATK Liberty

http://www.libertyspace.us/

This would be a great large scale rocket (high power). Download the photo, really great looking poster.

RD

I see a body wrap in some kit's future...

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-Brain
SKY AYE ROCKETRY
Follow Your Impulse!

ATK probably won't make their own kit, but, if a major model rocket company was to make it, I'm sure they will not use a body wrap. A preprinted body tube with these great graphics would be the way to go.

RD

Pretty...

Looks like they are using the Lockheed Orion capsule, but they have no service module as yet. The crew escape system will have to be pretty robust to allow an abort under SRB thrust.

Ariane 5 has an acceptable track record (95% success), but is not an air-start booster at this time, that will require some tinkering (probably the engine from the in-development Ariane 5 ME, which can be re-started).

5-segment SRB has flown (Ares-1X), but was damaged on landing; probably due to a parachute malfunction, so there will need to be a few more test-flights. Flight testing the SRB to test recovery would not be THAT bad. Maybe they will revive the Filament-wound cases...

It seems as though most of the hurdles are surmountable. Time and money will tell.

-Ironnerd

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The SRB segnments will not be recovered as was the case for the Shuttle. They will fall into the ocean.
NASA/ATK has many of the SRB segments in their inventory.

This booster probably will never make it, Space X will bury Liberty both on efficiency and cost. Using a solid rocket as the primary first stage booster is not the best choice, but was made solely to appeal to certain congresscritters for political pork in their districts. For a first stage LOX/kerosene is still the best choice. Solids are too inefficient and LOX/LH2 too bulky.

Actually, using a proven, man-rated solid rocket booster for a first stage IS the a superior technical choice for a manned launch vehicle, as compared to the SpaceX Falcon 9 Merlin 1C (3 flights) and Merlin 1D (0 flights). Invoking "political pork" is a bit dishonest, when Liberty was rated higher in previous evaluations and still not awarded funding.

Matt
(currently employed by ATK and a real rocket scientist)

Not THAT many, and the casings are needed for SLS, which is going to expend them as well. If this rocket is EVER going to fly, it's going to need filament wound casings, period. Heck, SLS is only supposed to use the remaining shuttle casings in the 5 segment configuration boosters developed for Ares I and will not recover them-- they'll be allowed to impact the ocean and sink. That's why the SLS is supposed to have a booster competition between new expendable SRB's and liquid rocket boosters, possibly powered by a revived F-1 if the reports are to be believed.

This whole rocket just doesn't make much sense, and looks like so much PR baloney to me... ATK trying to horn in on the commercial funding after losing its Ares I contract when Ares I was cancelled, nothing more. This thing isn't even going to have a pad, because I was just at KSC last week and the Ares I MLP is going to be reworked for SLS. Supposedly this thing may fly from Wallops... I'll believe it when I see it. It would need entirely new infrastructure to fly out of Vandenberg for the military missions (polar orbits anyways) and I don't see that happening either. The SRB's were pretty much one trick ponies, but that hasn't stopped alternative designs using them, like SRB-X, from cropping up now and again, usually just as abysmally. They'll need some sort of third stage to do equatorial launches to Geosynchronous Earth Orbit as well, unless they can develop an airstart Vulcain with restart capability as well, and figure out how to dispose of the stage when they're done. I don't buy it...

You're talking about a LOT of infrastructure and development costs to introduce ANOTHER launcher into the market already controlled by the EELV's and now with SpaceX competition as well, and with the Europeans, Russians, and Chinese to compete with as well (heck probably India too.) There's a glut of launchers, and most of them don't have the limitations and infrastructure demands that this big segmented solid brings to the party... and I don't believe for a second the Ariane core can be dropped in as an upperstage without serious and expensive modifications...

We were told how "Safe, Simple, and Soon" the Ares I was gonna be, and it turned out to be NONE of those things... in fact very much the opposite... The specifics are on NSF forums in the L2 section, but from what I gathered, the problem with 5 segment SRB recovery wasn't just caused by the parachute failure (the parachutes couldn't handle the extra weight, and the recovery gear itself was quite heavy) but from what I understand the SRB casing was bent and warped beyond reuse on Ares I-x, probably from the additional length and weight increasing the impact force, and the longer casing having more of a bending moment... it wasn't long after Ares I-X that all talk of the 5 segment boosters being recoverable was dropped... followed shortly thereafter by Ares I's cancellation. Without first stage recovery, Ares I made NO sense... so will it be with this one. It's also making LRB's look a lot more attractive, because they bring a lot to the party over SRB's anyway, especially for manned vehicles.

This whole thing to me just seems to be so much PRP... pretty rocket porn... LOL Just to get space enthusiasts and uninformed politicians excited and maybe drum up some funding for ATK...

Later! OL JR

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I'd hardly call the NEW 5 segment booster design "proven"... it's NOT the same as the shuttle four segment boosters, even if it's using their old casings. It's about like calling liverworst the same as knackwurst because they're in the same casing... HARDLY!!! LOL

The five segment design has NO flight history, manned or otherwise, though it is based on a manned design (heritage shuttle 4 segment SRB's). It's had a few ground test firings, whereas the Merlins have a LOT of ground testing and FLIGHT history now since 10 of them fly on every flight of Falcon 9 (nine in the first stage and one on the airlit vacuum modified upper stage).

I'm just REALLY curious to see how ATK plans to stack these large first stage boosters anywhere but in the VAB using shuttle era- hardware and infrastructure... the full SRB stacked weighed in at what, 1.3 million pounds each... so a five segment booster will be what, about 1.6 million pounds?? They were designed to be put together vertically in the VAB and then crawled out to the pads via the crawler and crawlerways and launched at 39A/B at KSC. New infrastructure elsewhere is going to need a whole new approach, and lifting individual segments weighing a lot more than a diesel locomotive and stacking them on the pad is going to require some heavy duty GSE... which won't come cheap... SLC-6 at Vandenberg was scrapped and switched over to EELV years ago, so that'll mean all new equipment out there if Liberty is supposed to try to get any polar launches... NONE of this stuff comes cheap, and basically we're already underutlizing Delta IV and Atlas V in this same payload class because of the glut of launch vehicles on the market...

So forgive me if this thing just smells of an attempt to raise more gov't pork from one end to the other...

I'll believe it when I see it flying; til then it's all talk...

Later! OL JR

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