Lookie.

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Why are we knocking the ATK Liberty BEFORE we know it's capability?

There are many players in this commercialization of the space program.

In my opinion, Space X isn't the "God of Rocketry", too much hype.

You talk about proven success, what about the Merlin shutdown ?

We should all be open minded and see what hapens.

It reminds me how Estes was knocked for whatever they did, right or wrong.They did their best to provide the kits and motors we all wanted.

I think the key to that discussion was the previous owner.

Actually, if the concept of "man rating" had been applied to the shuttle before 4/12/81, the first several flights would have been under remote control with no astronauts aboard. The SRB's and the SSME's had never been used together as a system before then, just independent static firing of the individual components. How could the Liberty been rated higher when the Vulcain engine has not been "man rated" and the 5 segment SRB has never been launched, much less "man rated"? Man rating the 5 segment SRB/modified Vulcain before it was ever launched sounds like statistical hand waving based upon prior use of similar (but not the same) components in other systems.

The Falcon 9 and the Dragon capsule have now had 3 flights without people aboard and has had good performance, which is one more flight than the more primitive Gemini system had before it was declared "man rated". The cost of the Falcon 9 launch has been posted by Space X, has ATK done so, and has the Liberty had any launches yet as a system?

I stated it looked like political pork and I stand by that statement. It is an attempt to get government funding to develop the system, whereas Space X developed the Falcon 9/Dragon on their own dime in hopes of getting some NASA contracts for cargo delivery and astronaut taxi service. Has ATK/EADS/Boeing decided to build 3 launchers and test them on their own money? Let them develop it in a manner similar to Space X and I'll withdraw that statement.



Joe
(No rocket scientist, just a hard-headed engineer)

As you probably know, NASA had one billion dollars to give out in contracts. Space X received $440 million of that.

Boeing and one othere company that i never heard of before divided up the remaining funds.

What did ATK Liberty get from that "pie" NOTHING !

All "man rating" is "statistical hand waving" because nobody has the financial budget to consume 20 units to do it right.



http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy...e-20120803.html

CCiCap partners are:
-- Sierra Nevada Corporation, Louisville, Colo., $212.5 million
-- Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX), Hawthorne, Calif., $440 million
-- The Boeing Company, Houston, $460 million

Sierra Nevada is the company who made the (unstable combustion) SS1 hybrid and is making the (unstable combustion) SS2 hybrid and makes one of the manned shuttle like vehicles hoping to be launched to space by somebody and paid for by somebody.

http://www.sncorp.com/
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...d-212-5-million
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Chaser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceDev
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/...09sierranevada/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceShipTwo



Research Jerry

Here is a photo of a stable running hybrid with considerably higher ISP too.


HTP-HTPB hybrid SL ISP 240 lb-seconds/lb. This one is 6" OD. Tests up to 18" OD have been successfully conducted.

Great information Jerry

RD

They got nothing because they have only a paper launcher.

Does Sierra Nevada corp and Boeing have launchers?

Boeing has launchers. Pretty sure most them are either classified or partnering with other large firms. One guy who I know went to work for Marquardt, which was taken over by Hughes that division of which was taken over by Boing.

Boing has its fingers in everything.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/delta/

http://www.boeing.com/history/boeing/saturn.html

http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defe...ment%20Contract

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...3415041686.html

X-Cor was our neighbor at Mojave Airport where we did some very large solids firings.


9" x 144" solid 13,000 lb thrust a few feet from our building. Stick that in your Alpha and launch it. . .

Sierra Nevada is a proposal farm, and they have gotten a few hits lately, however the delivered results have been slim at best.

What's you're point?? Those are LIQUID ROCKETS, which are perfectly capable of being move HORIZONTALLY, because they're moved EMPTY of propellants... SRB's on the other hand, must by their very nature, be moved FULLY FUELED with propellants and thus weighing millions of pound during transport... building something to carry them, let alone erect them, is a HUGE undertaking... doubt it, read the "summaries" on the 260 inch solid handling study that I posted over in the Scale section... massive barges, enormous lifting cradles, multiple pumpdowns and barge lifts in stages to get the blasted thing upright and on the pad... all of which means HUGE operations expenses...

Even the Soviet "Buran" shuttle was moved horizontally, because it used LIQUID rocket boosters that were moved to the pad EMPTY, and thus weighed very little compared to the American Shuttle stack with it's massive segmented SRB's. Horizontal moving and integration has proven itself cheaper than vertical integration, which is why most of the modern rockets have adopted that operations scheme... BUT, then again, they're all LIQUID vehicles with, at most small Solid booster motors strapped on the sides, NOT massive solid first stages...

Thanks for proving my point for me... Later! OL JR

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