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  #11  
Old 05-12-2013, 07:46 PM
Vanel Vanel is offline
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Thanks for all the tips! I am currently trying to track down an answer as to when MMI first released the booster to the Aerobee and Arcon kits. Anyone know or can point me in the right direction?

I want to make sure the history of staging part of my talk is correct.

Been digging through scans of old Model Rocketeers - there is a lot of fascinating stuff there. hard to stay focused; lots of diversions
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  #12  
Old 05-12-2013, 09:16 PM
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sandman sandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanel
Thanks for all the tips! I am currently trying to track down an answer as to when MMI first released the booster to the Aerobee and Arcon kits. Anyone know or can point me in the right direction?

I want to make sure the history of staging part of my talk is correct.

Been digging through scans of old Model Rocketeers - there is a lot of fascinating stuff there. hard to stay focused; lots of diversions


Have you been going through the DVD from NARTS?

They are very very distracting...Hard to focus!
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  #13  
Old 05-13-2013, 08:33 PM
Vanel Vanel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman
Have you been going through the DVD from NARTS?

They are very very distracting...Hard to focus!


Just ordered that - been going through the CD compilation of old Model Rocketeers plus stuff I can find online. It has been a mighty interesting trip to the past! In my research, I found this page from the July 1975 Model Rocketeer - note the 16 year old 4th place finisher under Streamer and Parachute Duration...


Crap, I'm getting old!
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanel
Just ordered that - been going through the CD compilation of old Model Rocketeers plus stuff I can find online. It has been a mighty interesting trip to the past! In my research, I found this page from the July 1975 Model Rocketeer - note the 16 year old 4th place finisher under Streamer and Parachute Duration...
Holy Cow!! You flew against Vinyard and Gassaway in a regional as a 16 year old? That was some incredibly stiff competition. Those two are still two of the best competitors around.
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  #15  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:09 PM
Vanel Vanel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
Holy Cow!! You flew against Vinyard and Gassaway in a regional as a 16 year old? That was some incredibly stiff competition. Those two are still two of the best competitors around.


Dumb luck That was my first rocket contest, and I had almost no clue. What I did know, I gleaned from John Langford in a Georgia science camp the summer before.
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  #16  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:40 PM
Vanel Vanel is offline
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My time line and notes so far - I welcome any comments/corrections/additions!


1957 - First rocket "kit" - Orville Carlisle's (NAR #1) Rock-A-Chute Mark II
(October) - 6 days after launch of Sputnik, Model Missiles, Inc (MMI) incorporated. 18x70 mm motor size created because it was same tube used by the "Buzz Bomb Helicopter" firework made by Brown Manufacturing, which produced initial rocket motors for MMI. Original Carlisle motors were ~13 mm in diameter.

"Green Mountain Proving Ground", a former WWII ammo dump, was established as MMI's launch site in late 1957. Stine refers to this as the "world's best" rocket range. Launches were held on Saturdays. It is not an exaggeration to say model rocketry was born there. Lost in April 1959 because of a dispute with a turkey farmer, who claimed that the rockets were disturbing his many thousand turkeys.

(December) - Model Missile Association established. 1st Safety Code written. Became the National Association of Rocketry at the end of 1958.

1958 - 1st 2 stage models appear at "Green Mountain Proving Ground" in first few months. MMI produces the 1st mass-produced kit, the Aerobee-Hi model rocket (April).

1959 - Vern Estes creates "Mabel" and starts manufacturing motors for MMI (Mabel could produce a motor every 5.5 seconds).

(July 16) - NARAM-1: 21 rocketeers from state of Colorado at the "Hogback Rocket Range". Available rocket motors were Type A, Type B and Type B Booster, made by Estes for Model Missiles, Inc; equivalent to A.8-3, A.8-4, B.8-4, and B.8-0. "Honest Ivan" 7 engine cluster flown just after 2 in the afternoon by Bill Meller. Norman Mains, Jr. (NAR #61) was 1st U.S. National Champion with 33 contest points.

1961 - 2 stage "Pee Wee" by Tom Rhue (NAR #50); plan only. Estes releases their first kit, the Scout. Centuri Engineering founded by Lee Piester.

1962 - Centuri Black Widow 2 stage kit

1963 - Estes 2-stage Apogee and Ranger 3 motor cluster kits, Centuri 3-stage Aero-Dyne

1964 - Estes Apogee-2 and Farside 3-stager

1965 - Parallel staging successfully demonstrated by Pat Artis at NARAM-7

1971 (April) - 1st successful demonstration of flashbulb ignition by John Langford.

1972 - Competition Model Rockets (CMR) introduces the Marcus 'strap-on booster' kit
(June) - 21 motor cluster "UPrated Igor" is successfully launched via flashbulb ignition (NGRM-3 in Atlanta)

Motor notes:

A.8-4 would be equivalent to a A4-4 in today's notation. B.8 would be B4.

1962 Centuri catalog shows the B3-0 and B3-5, roughly equivalent to a B14

Estes B14 discontinued in 1980 due to safety concerns; Centuri B14 advertised until 1981.
B8 introduced in 1980; discontinued 1997
B14 - peak thrust of 7 lbs. 0.35 sec duration; B8 - peak thrust of 5 lbs, 0.6 sec duration.
C5 introduced by Centuri in 1977; discontinued by Estes in 2001 (C5-0S went away with Centuri in 1983).
C5 peak thrust of around 5 lbs (21.8 newtons)

No "heavy lift" 18 mm BP booster since 1997.
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  #17  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:00 PM
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Good chronological summary.

The only thing I'd add would be that the Green Mountain site was lost, not because of the 'model' rockets, but by some amateur rocketeers who blew a hole in the farmer's fence with one of their concoctions. Somewhat minor distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.

At least, that is how I have heard the story went.


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  #18  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:08 PM
Vanel Vanel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
The only thing I'd add would be that the Green Mountain site was lost, not because of the 'model' rockets, but by some amateur rocketeers who blew a hole in the farmer's fence with one of their concoctions. Somewhat minor distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.

At least, that is how I have heard the story went.


Earl


The amateurs blowing a hole in the fence (which allowed livestock to escape) was the immediate precursor to the coup de grace, which was all the rockets being launched disturbing the turkeys. Both events happened about the same time, but Stine gives the honor of eviction to the turkey farmer in the MR article.
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  #19  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:22 PM
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Earl Earl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanel
The amateurs blowing a hole in the fence (which allowed livestock to escape) was the immediate precursor to the coup de grace, which was all the rockets being launched disturbing the turkeys. Both events happened about the same time, but Stine gives the honor of eviction to the turkey farmer in the MR article.


Well, I wasn't saying that it was not the farmer who threw them off the land (I've got the article too in my collection, both the original Model Rocketry article and the later Model Rocketeer article).

I was just making the point that his ire was raised initially by the illicit 'amateur' activity that had, as I recall, 'sneaked' onto the property for their activities, and hence, ruined use of the land for ALL rocketry activities.

Probably not the last time that would happen in rocketry endeavors, I don't suppose.

I tried a few years ago via Google Maps to find out what might be on that property now, but could not easily pinpoint the exact location outside of Denver. Anyone know specifically, I wonder?


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  #20  
Old 05-14-2013, 10:25 PM
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Carl@Semroc Carl@Semroc is offline
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Dr. Bob Craddock and I decided that this engine pair from G. Harry Stine's collection was probably used on the Mark I, making it the first two-stage model rocket. The cardboard sleeve holding the upper stage and lower stage together was built in with the two engines. Only the bottom had the usual fuse the the earliest Rock-a-chute engines had.

He would not let me separate them to see if there was delay in the bottom stage.
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